> -----Original Message-----
> From: Paul Wouters [mailto:p...@nohats.ca]
> Sent: Monday, May 23, 2016 4:15 PM
 
> To get past middleware boxes that tend to not touch "real" TLS traffic but
> mangle anything else.

[HJ]  so there is middle box that will only allow TLS traffic (and dropping all 
plain tcp traffic)? that sounds pretty extreme, but even in such case, nothing 
prevent such middle box to have a new rule to drop TLS encapsulated IPsec 
traffic if TLS level encryption is not used.

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