Nick -
Hoping I remember all the details correctly as I don't have time right now to re-read things.... Luis has put this data on the web before and claimed "resonance". Someone then educated him that current peaks and resonance are not synonyms, My recollection is that the subject of current peaks was well covered and analyzed by Beverage in his 1923 AIEE paper. I see no reference to Beverage's work so assume Luis did not explore that area. I saw no numbers to serve as a basis for "resonance" - some L and C values would be helpful. But we stray from the original question : how much loss is there in a non-terminated BOG / Beverage? Some have compared "over the shoulder" versus normal wires, including John Bryant. Assuming I recall correctly, he found that over the shoulder had some feasibility as the loss was some 5 to 10 dB. Chuck ________________________________ From: IRCA <irca-boun...@hard-core-dx.com> on behalf of Nick Hall-Patch <n...@ieee.org> Sent: Tuesday, November 6, 2018 5:33 PM To: Mailing list for the International Radio Club of America Subject: Re: [IRCA] BOG question Thanks Chuck; I knew I could bring you out of the woodwork. There's been a fair bit of hand-waving on the topband list about the BOG over the years, partly because anecdotally, either they "don't work", or that they have very good F/B. K2AV has done a lot of measurements, and seems to conclude that a proper BOG (not a wire near dry ground) is actually a resonant antenna, http://www.iv3prk.it/bog-modeling.htm puts forth the same IV3PRK Pierluigi "Luis" Mansutti (ex HC1PF)<http://www.iv3prk.it/bog-modeling.htm> www.iv3prk.it Quite simple to select another of the several options in the “Custom” sheet of AutoEZ to get the following graph, which indicates that’s much better to go towards a shorter length.. So moved the sweep a bit down and this is the F/B of a BOG 63 meters long, 3 cm. high, with a 250 ohms load and two sets of radials.An impressive F/B of 45 dB is peaking at a radial length of 20 meters. idea. This is for the limited frequency range of 160m; the entire MW band might prove interesting depending on length, ground conductivity etc. I'd assume that a BOG at Grayland especially in the summer would act more like a Beverage. Did you ever compare a "BOG" with a raised wire there? Nick At 00:18 2018-11-07, Chuck Hutton wrote: >I don't see the self-terminating thing. > > >It seems to me (unscientifically) that the losses are maybe 5 to 7 >dB. That's a far cry from the 30 or more dB loss in a properly >terminated system. > > >Chuck > > >________________________________ >From: IRCA <irca-boun...@hard-core-dx.com> on behalf of Nick >Hall-Patch <n...@ieee.org> >Sent: Tuesday, November 6, 2018 3:54 PM >To: Mailing list for the International Radio Club of America; h >Walter Salmaniw >Subject: Re: [IRCA] BOG question > >Have you had success terminating a BOG Russ? (supposedly it is ~200 >ohms, rather than the raised Beverage's ~450 ohms). > >I think some have found that it is self terminating, to a degree, as >there is quite a bit of loss on reflected signals. > >best wishes, > >Nick > > >At 20:07 2018-11-06, Russ Edmunds wrote: > >It isn't a dumb question because the answer is yes and no. If you > >terminate a BOG at one end, that should more focus the reception > >pattern in favor of the terminated end. If you're looking for > >stations from the N, then terminate at the N end. In the event that > >the desired result is an antenna which receives both N and S but > >nulls E and W, then you lay it out N-S and do not terminate it. > > > > > > > >Russ Edmunds > > > >WB2BJH > > > >Blue Bell, PA > > > >Grid FN20id > > > >________________________________ > >From: IRCA <irca-boun...@hard-core-dx.com> on behalf of R. Colin > >Newell <coffeecan...@gmail.com> > >Sent: Tuesday, November 6, 2018 2:53:57 PM > >To: Mailing list for the International Radio Club of America; > Walter Salmaniw > >Subject: Re: [IRCA] BOG question > > > >Dumb question --- Do BOG's get a termination? > > > >On Tue, Nov 6, 2018 at 11:52 AM Volodya S <can...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > Stephen, my BOGs in Masset are about 750' long and I'm very > pleased. Good > > > for all Asia as well as Australia/New Zealand. 73, Walt > > > > > > > >-- > >Colin Newell - Editor and creator *of *Coffeecrew.com > ><http://www.Coffeecrew.com> and DXer.ca <http://www.DXer.ca> - >CoffeeCrew 2018<http://www.coffeecrew.com/> >www.coffeecrew.com<http://www.coffeecrew.com> >Home of the Coffeecrew website - Alive and well since 1996! Canadian >coffee expert. > > > > >VA7WWV | Twitter @CoffeeCrew | Victoria - Canada > >_______________________________________________ > >IRCA mailing list > >IRCA@hard-core-dx.com > >http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca > > > >Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the > >original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of > >the IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers > > > >For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org > > > >To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com > > > >_______________________________________________ > >IRCA mailing list > >IRCA@hard-core-dx.com > >http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca > > > >Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the > >original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of > >the IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers > > > >For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org > > > >To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com > >Nick Hall-Patch >Victoria, BC >Canada > >_______________________________________________ >IRCA mailing list >IRCA@hard-core-dx.com >http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca > >Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the >original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of >the IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers > >For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org > >To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com > >_______________________________________________ >IRCA mailing list >IRCA@hard-core-dx.com >http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca > >Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the >original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of >the IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers > >For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org > >To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com Nick Hall-Patch Victoria, BC Canada _______________________________________________ IRCA mailing list IRCA@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com _______________________________________________ IRCA mailing list IRCA@hard-core-dx.com http://montreal.kotalampi.com/mailman/listinfo/irca Opinions expressed in messages on this mailing list are those of the original contributors and do not necessarily reflect the opinion of the IRCA, its editors, publishing staff, or officers For more information: http://www.ircaonline.org To Post a message: irca@hard-core-dx.com