Since there are so many of us wishing to design a MMORPG I think I'll
take it upon myself to try and organize us. Perhaps we can each
contribute code to a common shared pool from which we can each customize
our own game.
So speak up if you'd like to be included as a member of this group.
As for a target platform I'm aiming for systems at least as powerful as
an Athlon 800 Mhz with at least a GeForce video card and 128 Meg
memory. This might be a bit on the low end.
- John Wright
Starfire Research
Ice Bone wrote:
>
> Ahhhh!
>
> Thanks for the answers. I can see now that I'll have
> to commit to coding an boned actor system. I was
> hoping to avoid that, don't we all :), but it looks
> like it's required.
>
> On the other hand I can put some of my personal
> theories on how an actor system should be designed
> into practice so it's not all bad.
>
> Kinda curious though about another thing. What is
> everyone considering to be their "target platform"? I
> know that my target platform is a 1Ghz w/256MB RAM and
> a GeForce II w/64MB RAM equivalent. I figure this
> will be the standard system in about 1-2 years. More
> likely 1 year.
>
> Thanks again.
>
> ed
>
> --- David <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > You can do all those things.
> >
> > In reality, the scenegraph is really just a
> > hierarchical data storage
> > mechanism that allows programmers access to a high
> > level abstraction of the
> > 3d world. Java3d's engine is constantly pulling
> > information from this
> > graph, sorting and filtering it and then sending the
> > geometry to the card.
> > Providing you have set the appropriate compitibility
> > bits on the nodes, you
> > can alter this scene graph at runtime and see the
> > results. Building and
> > modifying landscape mesh can be done in real time.
> > Modifying the mesh
> > vertices can even be done without creating a new
> > shape, but you will have to
> > recalc your normals for the result to look correct.
> >
> > Java3d performs better when you can limit the amount
> > of changes to the
> > scenegraph each frame, because it builds an
> > optimized version of the
> > scenegraph for rendering. When you make changes, it
> > has to rebuild this
> > optimized version. To give you an idea of
> > performance, our landscape engine
> > uses procedural meshes for pieces of the terrain
> > which are within a
> > configurable range, these are high detail cells,
> > with possible overlapping
> > textures for overlaying paths and other terrain
> > details. Normally these
> > mesh cells are built and destroyed as you walk
> > through the world, but in the
> > case where you are warped or jumped to a location
> > where you have no cells
> > built, it has to build them all in a radious
> > surrounding you. Building the
> > submeshes for a radius of 300 meters, where each
> > sub-mesh is approx 5 meters
> > on a side, along with their textures, takes approx
> > 700 ms. Thats on a 700
> > MHz machine with a nVidea TNT2.
> >
> > One thing to keep in mind is that Java3d is not a
> > game engine like genesis
> > or some of the other 3d libraries out there. It is
> > therefore "missing" many
> > things from that perspective (particles, etc). But
> > all those systems can be
> > built.
> >
> > In regards to animation. You can do it any way you
> > want, but other than
> > morphing behavior, there is no built in mechanism
> > for animation. You either
> > build shapes and switch between them, or apply
> > transformations (rotations,
> > translations) to all the sub-peices to control your
> > animation. Morphing is
> > just a built in way to interpolate between two
> > shapes with the same number
> > of verticies and geometries.
> >
> > Here is an analogy. If using opengl directly is
> > analogous to building a
> > house from a bunch of trees, Java3d is like building
> > a house using pre-cut
> > and cured lumber and a truck full of tools. But you
> > don't get any pre-fab
> > doors, walls, or roofs.
> >
> > Dave Yazel
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Ice Bone <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sent: Sunday, October 01, 2000 12:11 PM
> > Subject: Re: [JAVA3D] Everquest
> >
> >
> > Hehehe. That is a very important point since the
> > actual number of people working on their own MMORPG
> > is
> > now five. Please include me as I'm working, with
> > some
> > friends, on a game we're calling RuneWar. :):)
> >
> > Personally my biggest concern with Java3D, still
> > reading and learning the API so bear with me, is the
> > ability to modify the terrain structure in real time
> > and manipulating actors.
> >
> > I need the ability to modify the terrain mesh in
> > real
> > time so that I can construct "mud builder" tools
> > into
> > the game interface itself. This is so that my
> > building crews can build, excavate, apply textures
> > and
> > blend textures while in their avatar form and so it
> > will get properly rendered by the game engine.
> >
> > Another point is that I want my players to have the
> > ability, with restrictions, to accomplish many of
> > the
> > same tasks. So that if a Wizard tosses a fireball
> > at
> > a spot on the ground, it shouldn't remain green.
> > It's
> > texture should be changed to a burnt one and the
> > Z-axis values should be decreased a little (he dug a
> > hole in the ground).
> >
> > Another question I have, which will be answered by
> > the
> > API no doubt, is how actors are manipulated. I
> > already realize that there isn't a particle system,
> > which is a little annoying, but actors are pretty
> > much
> > required to have anything other than utterly static
> > displays.
> >
> > Another thing I was considering was to continue
> > working on Java3D but dividing my code into
> > rendering
> > and game oriented sections and then using JNI to
> > interface with an existing library.
> >
> > For that purpose there are a couple pretty solid
> > libraries out there that are written in C/C++ which
> > should do very nicely.
> >
> > Tools such as:
> > http://www.egerter.com
> > http://www.edgermage.com
> > http://www.jet3d.org
> > http://www.genesis3d.com
> > http://crystal.linuxgames.com
> >
> > Any answers please?
> >
> > ed
> >
> > --- John Wright <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > Setting aside the issue of Everquest's game design
> > > (which I personally
> > > think is horrible) it has shown that excellent 3D
> > > graphics can be done
> > > in a massively multiplayer online game. And I
> > know
> > > at least four people
> > > on this mailing list like myself that would like
> > to
> > > produce this type of
> > > game.
> > >
> > > A big question is "Can Java 3D be used to match or
> > > beat Everquest's
> > > graphics?" And to that so far I'm favorably
> > > inclined, so far I would
> > > say Java 3D is definitely up to the task.
> > >
> > > A key to why Everquest's graphics are so effective
> > > is that they have
> > > very low polygon count creatures with well painted
> > > textures. That
> > > certainly can be done in Java 3D. One thing I
> > don't
> > > see a way to do is
> > > to match their lighting effects. EQ has some good
> > > lighting effects
> > > (setting aside the point that "humans" can't see
> > at
> > > all at night and are
> > > unplayable).
> > >
> > > As a community another key goal we might want to
> > > help each other with is
> > > some standard character animations. Java 3D needs
> > > an "example" for how
> > > to animate a character walking.
> > >
> > > Also there has been some bashing of the flaws and
> > > glitches in Java 3D.
> > > We seem easily able to overlook the flaws in a
> > smash
> > > success like
> > > Everquest (have you ever seen the face texture for
> > a
> > > creature applied to
> > > it's butt?). I'd like to see "perfection" as much
> > > or more than anyone,
> > > but let's face it the industry we are functioning
> > in
> > > is FULL of bugs.
> > > Windows has thousands of bugs, even hardware can
> > be
> > > very tricky to get
> > > just right. Damn I hate to sound like I'm saying
> > > bugs are ok, but let's
> > > not trash Java 3D when it's no worse than the rest
> > > of the industry.
> > >
> > > - John Wright
> > > Starfire Research
> > >
> > > Steve Pietrowicz wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Man, I *wish* Everquest had clouds like that.
> > > Phew....that's a really
> > > > cool URL.
> > > >
> > > > The clouds in Everquest are actually just
> > texture
> > > maps, done in some paint
> > > > program. I'm not sure which they use. It could
> > > have been generated by 3D
> > > > Studio Ma. You can turn the clouds off
> > > completely (I think), or have one
> > > > layer or two layer clouds. It's been a while
> > > since I've had one layer
> > > > going, but I think they have clouds painted on a
> > > blue background. The two
> > > > layer effect is using the one layer texture in
> > > conjunction with a second
> > > > layer of clouds in a texture map with
> > transparency
> > > turned on. The texture
> > > > maps move at different rates, and you get a nice
> > > looking cloud
> > > > effect. ...At least as nice as current
> > Everquest
> > > technology can do. I
> > > > would expect EQ2 and other games will have even
> > > nicer effects.
> > > >
> > > > Anyway, the cloud textures appear to me to be
> > > thrown onto the inside of a
> > > > giant sphere that encapsulates the whole outdoor
> > > zone that you're in. The
> > > > best place to see this effect is on the "good"
> > > boat to Kunark, right after
> > > > you zone into the Finora Vie area. If you face
> > > away from where the boat
> > > > will dock, you can see how the sky curves
> > towards
> > > the edge of the zone.
> > > >
> > > > I believe they change the tint of the background
> > > on the textures as day
> > > > progresses to night.
> > > >
> > > > It's a pretty simple technique, but fairly
> > > effective.
> > > >
> > > > ....At least, that's my guess on how they do
> > it,
> > > based solely on
> > > > observation. :-)
> > > >
> > > > If anyone here wants to try Everquest, I highly
> > > recommend the game. The
> > > > graphics aren't state of the art by today's
> > > standards (They have to deal
> > > > with system requirements for systems that are a
> > > year or two old, since
> > > > that's when they started it), but the game
> > itself
> > > is very
> > > > compelling. Pretty addictive too. I saw
> > > someone's quote on a message
> > > > board once... "Everquest makes Crack look like
> > > Diet Coke". Man, that's
> > > > the truth.... :-)
> > > >
> > > > Steve
> > > >
> > > > At 04:02 PM 9/29/2000 -0700, Paul Byrne wrote:
> > > > >Hi Dave,
> > > > >
> > > > >Check out
> > > http://vterrain.org/Atmosphere/clouds.html
> > > > >
> > > > >Rgds
> > > > >
> > > > >Paul
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >MIME-Version: 1.0
> > > > > >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> > > > > >X-Priority: 3
> > > > > >X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
> > > > > >X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE
> > > V5.00.2615.200
> > > > > >Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 18:51:07 -0400
> > > > > >From: David <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > > > >Subject: [JAVA3D] Clouds
> > > > > >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Hi all:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >I have scoured the web looking for techniques
> > > for generating clouds ala
> > > > > >Asheron's call and Everquest. Even came up
> > > blank on Gamasutra. Can anyone
> > > > > >toss me a hint? In particular I am looking
> > for
> > > moving clouds. Should I be
> > > > > >using a multi-texture for highlighting a
> > plasma
> > > function?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Dave Yazel
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
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> > > >
> > >
> >
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