Hi LeDon, While in Word open quick settings by pressing, Insert / Jaws key + V. type, Virtual, in the search field, & wait a second for the list to populate. Arrow down & Jaws will report if the Virtual Ribbons checkbox is checked or not. Take care. Mike. Go Dodgers! Sent from my iBarstool. Arguing with a woman is like reading a software license agreement. In the end you have to ignore everything, & click I agree. ----- Original Message ----- From: LeDon To: jaws-users-list@jaws-users.com Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2017 10:23 AM Subject: Re: [JAWS-Users] Learning MS ribbons - virtual or not ......
How would one know if the ribbon or the virtual ribbon is in use? -----Original Message----- From: JAWS-Users-List [mailto:jaws-users-list-boun...@jaws-users.com] On Behalf Of Jim Flusche Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2017 5:30 PM To: jaws-users-list@jaws-users.com Subject: Re: [JAWS-Users] Learning MS ribbons - virtual or not ...... Hi Dave, you are wrong, I never said a blind person must use the Jaws virtual ribbons. They can use them or not use them, this is a personal choice. However, in my opinion, I think they would benefit, from using the Jaws virtual ribbons. You are the only person being dogmatic about not using the Jaws virtual ribbons. Let all members try using or not using the Jaws virtual ribbons for themselves. Quit putting words in my mouth. I said, in my humble opinion, I think new Jaws users would benefit from using the Jaws virtual ribbons and its simple layout, in all the office 365 products. So, seems to be your way or the highway. Why don't you give the virtual ribbons a try yourself? Smiles. -----Original Message----- From: JAWS-Users-List [mailto:jaws-users-list-boun...@jaws-users.com] On Behalf Of Dave ... Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2017 3:28 PM To: jaws-users-list@jaws-users.com Subject: Re: [JAWS-Users] Learning MS ribbons - virtual or not ...... Rose, Agree completely. It's fine for folks to tell of their experience with a particular feature, but to insist that a particular method is best for a blind person seems to be dogmatic. Dave Oregonian, woodworker, Engineer, Musician, and Pioneer ----- Original Message ----- From: <rosecomb...@cox.net> To: <jaws-users-list@jaws-users.com> Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2017 08:36 Subject: Re: [JAWS-Users] Learning MS ribbons - virtual or not ...... I am not sighted either, however, not being able to avail myself of frequently used shortcut keys I have known since Word 97 is the reason I turn off or never turn on this Jaws Feature. Your mileage may vary which is why I suggest anyone interested try each and do what feels best to them. For newbies they are probably just made to order, but for me and many like me, not having the ability to use key commands we have used from Word 97 forward is a definite disadvantage. Individuals need to make informed choices and choose options to their tastes, to tell them they must use something or cannot use something else when Jaws has so many options seems counterproductive. I turn off keyboard echo when typing, have for years, and using Word echo drives me crazy also but I'd never tell anyone out there they needed to work the same way I work. I am totally annoyed with a new version of Jaws when it is set at defaults to hear space every time I space, it is one of the first keys I mute even if I switch the keyboard echo off. However, I hate hearing the space, and I turn off echo because it does not keep up with my typing speed but I'd never tell any of you to work the same way I work. Same goes for the ribbons issues, try working both ways if interested and decide which works for you, not your mate, not your coworker but for you. -----Original Message----- From: JAWS-Users-List [mailto:jaws-users-list-boun...@jaws-users.com] On Behalf Of Jim Flusche Sent: Monday, August 21, 2017 1:58 PM To: jaws-users-list@jaws-users.com Subject: Re: [JAWS-Users] Learning MS ribbons - virtual or not ...... Yes, I guess that explains why you don't use the Jaws virtual ribbons. I can see where you were trying to interact with the sited computer users where you worked. That's fine and understandable. But what I am trying to patiently say is, for a blind computer user of Jaws, in a home or work environment, I believe it is more efficient to use the Jaws virtual ribbons and the new tell me feature in the office 365 subscription. The office 2016 products work well with Jaws 18 using the virtual ribbons. As a blind computer user, why not take advantage of the Jaws virtual ribbons feature? I am not sited, so why should I put to my memory, all the various office shortcut keystrokes for using word, outlook, and excel 2016. This sounds like a lot of extra work, that a blind user of office should not have to add to the learning of how to use W-10 with Jaws. I did try that method for a few years, but I did not like it. No hard feelings, we are just having a friendly discussion on whether to use the Jaws virtual ribbons or not. No shame in using the Jaws virtual ribbons. Just call me lazy, only so much room in this Pinhead of mine! LOL. No, I don't believe the moderators will get upset, if we keep this topic as a friendly discussion. I think it will benefit the group. Let me say, I meant no disrespect to your views on not using the virtual ribbons in Jaws. So, thanks and smiles for your friendly discussion on this topic. -----Original Message-----From: JAWS-Users-List [mailto:jaws-users-list-boun...@jaws-users.com] On Behalf of Adrian Spratt Sent: Monday, August 21, 2017 4:24 PM To: jaws-users-list@jaws-users.com Subject: Re: [JAWS-Users] Learning MS ribbons - virtual or not ...... Hi, Jim. The reason I don't try the JAWS virtual ribbon is the one I gave you before. To quote that part of my post: This is one area, however, where I believe JAWS users have both a practical and philosophical choice to make, and new users need to know that this choice exists. I quickly became comfortable with the MS ribbons, as others on this list have. If they were too difficult, then I, too, would use the virtual ribbon. But since we have a true choice here, the question becomes whether I choose a method everyone else in the world uses or the one that only a few can. I'll elaborate. I used to supervise a consumer protection mediation program where all my staff was sighted. As many middle-age people find, college students handle technology much more naturally than I did. If I had a problem using MS Word or some other application, one or other of my student interns would have an answer for me right away. If I'd been using the JAWS virtual ribbon, they could have given me no help. Besides, there were times when I knew how to solve a Word or other tech problem that no one else did, which helped ensure that I kept interacting with my staff on an even playing field. If I'd been using the JAWS virtual cursor, I would have been out of that loop. So what I mean by a "philosophical" choice is that I chose interaction with the sighted world over the seemingly simpler JAWS virtual ribbon. As I wrote before, I would have used the JAWS virtual ribbon if the MS ribbons had been inaccessible, but they're extremely easy to use, thanks in large part to shortcuts, the applications key and the key tips. I hope this answers your question once and for all. I don't want to test our moderators' patience over a non-technical JAWS question. -----Original Message----- From: JAWS-Users-List [mailto:jaws-users-list-boun...@jaws-users.com] On Behalf Of Jim Flusche Sent: Monday, August 21, 2017 2:12 PM To: jaws-users-list@jaws-users.com Subject: Re: [JAWS-Users] Learning MS ribbons - virtual or not ...... OK, just wondering, you say, I neither use nor advocate the use of the virtual ribbon. So how do you know how the Jaws virtual ribbons work with the office 365 products? I am not trying to start trouble, I am just curious as to your strong response against not using the Jaws virtual ribbons, if you have not tried using them. Again, I am speaking through experience from using the Jaws virtual ribbons with office 365 on a W-10 computer, running the Creators update with the latest Jaws 18 version. Smiles. -----Original Message----- From: JAWS-Users-List [mailto:jaws-users-list-boun...@jaws-users.com] On Behalf Of Adrian Spratt Sent: Monday, August 21, 2017 12:22 PM To: jaws-users-list@jaws-users.com Subject: Re: [JAWS-Users] Learning MS ribbons - virtual or not ...... Hi, LeDon. If you use any Office application, such as Word or Outlook, chances are you already use the Microsoft ribbons and that you use a number of shortcuts. The thread is about the JAWS virtual cursor, which FS created in an attempt to simplify how visually impaired computer users manage these applications. I neither use nor advocate the use of the virtual ribbon. If you're looking for information about that, listers who do use it will need to respond to your query. Note that the JAWS virtual ribbon prevents you from using shortcuts and first-letter navigation. -----Original Message----- From: JAWS-Users-List [mailto:jaws-users-list-boun...@jaws-users.com] On Behalf Of LeDon Sent: Monday, August 21, 2017 11:33 AM To: jaws-users-list@jaws-users.com Subject: Re: [JAWS-Users] Learning MS ribbons - virtual or not ...... OK, I must confess, I have not followed this thread. So I am not a power user. I am wondering, how do you get to the ribbon? How do I learn the short cuts and hints you speak of? -----Original Message----- From: JAWS-Users-List [mailto:jaws-users-list-boun...@jaws-users.com] On Behalf Of Adrian Spratt Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2017 9:29 AM To: jaws-users-list@jaws-users.com Subject: Re: [JAWS-Users] Learning MS ribbons - virtual or not ...... Hi, Laura. Rose previously posted a message that was critical of the JAWS virtual ribbon that I agree with. For one thing, it prevents you from using familiar shortcuts. In a bigger picture sense that might or might not matter to you, avoiding the regular Microsoft ribbon will make it more difficult to get sighted assistance, since they won't know anything about the JAWS virtual ribbon. For this and other reasons, I prefer to use the MS ribbons. Each of us has a different way of learning the MS ribbons. Whenever possible, I will use a shortcut instead of delving into the ribbon. For example, I'll press control-d to get to the font dialog rather than go hunting for it in the ribbon. Another way of getting around the ribbons is to use the applications key, between the right Windows and control keys on most keyboards. This is where I go for the dialog that takes you through line-spacing, margins, etc. But then there are the times when you must use the ribbon. Here, you may find yourself remembering what are called key tips. For example, when I want to place the page number at a certain point on a page (top left, top middle, etc.), I press the following keys: alt+n together for "insert," and then n, u in quick succession. I'm immediately in the right dialog. When you explore the MS ribbons, listen carefully for these key tips. I find they aren't always easy to hear, but usually I can make them out. The example I just gave will be verbalized when you go through the "insert" part of the ribbon. I'm not pretending to give you an exhaustive explanation of the MS ribbons, but I hope it might help you think about how to approach them. Shortcuts, applications key, key tips, in that order of simplicity. When I first faced the MS ribbons, I was intimidated. I shouldn't have been. Just learn what you need as the need arises. And never hesitate to post questions here. -----Original Message----- From: JAWS-Users-List [mailto:jaws-users-list-boun...@jaws-users.com] On Behalf Of Laura Richardson Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2017 9:58 AM To: jaws-users-list@jaws-users.com Subject: [JAWS-Users] Learning MS ribbons - virtual or not ...... Hello, When it comes to navigating MS Word ribbons I'm pretty much a beginner. I've memorized certain shortcut keys to do very specific things but need to learn how to navigate these ribbons. Right now virtual ribbons are turned on .. Would it be easier and more efficient to learn the ribbons if I turned this off? I want and need to learn as much as I can so any feedback and suggestions are greatly appreciated. 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