Scott, I really can't see anything to gain by becoming a Jakarta project, other then more bureaucracy.
BTW, we do have the "whole stack". We just support a pluggable web tier. -dain Scott Sanders wrote: > As a jakarta committer, I have to say thanks for stating this as > succintly as you did. > > I also read the article and thought that it was a little harsh, but was > not too worried about it. > > I admire what Jboss is and what the Jboss group is attempting. You guys > are the next Linux/Apache. Keep up the good work. > > Nevertheless, IMHO IBM/Sun don't affect what Apache is doing to the > extent that you think. But again MHO. > > I would love to see you guys come to Apache and build the whole stack, > but I also think you are doing fine where you are. > > Cheers, > Scott Sanders > > PS. Save me a tshirt ;) > > >>-----Original Message----- >>From: marc fleury [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] >>Sent: Saturday, March 23, 2002 3:22 PM >>To: Ceki Gulcu; [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>Subject: RE: [JBoss-dev] JBoss and Apache >> >> >>|>The interview states very clearly where I stand... >>| >>|Actually, your comments in the interview came though like an >>|unwarranted attack against Jakarta whereas now your concern >>seems to be >>|focused on the business model which is a very legitimate concern. >> >>I am sorry if the interview ruffled some feathers. My >>intention was not to attack Jakarta. It was simply to state >>my view that JBoss Group and Jakarta have different agendas. >>JBoss Group does not aspire to be a non-profit organization. >>We actually want to pay for J2EE certification. Also, we are >>extremely protective of our independence. My feeling is that >>IBM is calling the shots at Apache right now. The JBoss LGPL >>license and JBoss Group brand are an important part of our >>business, as is our independence from larger organizations. >> >>|>The Apache Foundation model is incompatible with our professional >>|vision. I >>|>view the ASF as a failure of the open source business >>model. I view >>|>Linux as an even bigger failure of the open source business >>model, so >>|>you see... :). >>| >>|Apache is rather big, Linux is even bigger. So >>characterizing Apache or >>|Linux as one big flop is inaccurate. I don't think Apache is about >>|financial success. >>|We measure success by a different yardstick. I would even >>adventure to say >>|that we don't really measure it. >> >>I never called Apache a flop. I only stated my opinion that >>it's not independent developers calling the shots, but IBM >>and to a lesser degree Sun. Apache is a big success from an >>open source standpoint, Linux is king in that category. But >>we want to move beyond simple open source success. We want a >>business model that favors the developers in the group. By >>this measure, the business of Linux is small, the developers >>are in their corner, the Linux distrubtors in another. >>Apache... httpd? as a protitable market? Financially, it's >>been victimized by its own success. There's no way to make an >>independent living out of it. If that's what you and the >>Apache guys want, that's fine. It's just not what we want for >>JBoss. J2EE is a different beast altogether. Everyone says >>Open Source needs services as a b-model, well J2EE is an >>inherently rich deep integration field. We want to be a >>player in it. We feel, it is only by earning money that we >>can achieve our independence and we simply would rather deal >>with clients than donors. Fact is that there's no free lunch. >>"You're going to have to serve somebody"--in the words of Bob >>Dylan. We want to choose who we serve and how. >> >>We are about commoditizing the appserver and getting paid as >>developers. The major thrust of corporate software is about >>pursuing the reverse, commoditize the developer and make >>people pay through the nose for the software. >> >>JBoss Group is the professional umbrella for a core group of >>developers and affiliates. >> >>|Why do you think you couldn't pursue the same goals within >>Apache? What >>|is there to prevent you? >> >>See above: it's about maintaining independence vis a vis >>other corporations and being able to choose the license we >>want. It's about the JBoss Group brand and benefiting the >>JBoss developers. Furthermore, right now Apache is not a J2EE >>play. You have excellent software (your own log4J, XML >>parsers, ANT, etc.), but when it comes to J2EE you only have >>20%, with Tomcat JSP servlet spec (done by Sun). We already >>implement the other 80% (EJB, JMS, JCA, JMX, etc). With >>Jetty, we have the full stack, including HTTPD. >> >>We respect your work and philosophy. There's room for difference. >> >>Peace, >> >>marcf >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Jboss-development mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-development >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Jboss-development mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-development > _______________________________________________ Jboss-development mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/jboss-development
