Yes, there is definitely a problem, but I don't I agree with your solution.
Clients are "behind" because nearly all of them are hobby projects. I think I can speak for most of us in saying that we are working as fast as we can within our available time, and throwing a certification weight on our shoulders wouldn't speed anything up. In addition, many of the features you mention just plain aren't ready in specification form. Avatars? XHTML-IM? Voice chat? These are all Experimental. Maybe we should start certifying Jabber Council members, to motivate them to approve some JEPs? (and speaking of which, my "jep-secure" has beat the record of the longest time from submission to publication, and is still counting.) Regarding the jabber.org client list: Yes, it is a zoo, but I think we decided awhile ago that jabber.org should always contain a complete listing, and if we wanted a smaller list (ie, just the "user oriented" software) then that listing, along with reviews, etc, would take place on an end-user site, such as "jabbercentral" (whenever it gets back...) or the theoretical "jabber.net". That said, certification is a neat idea. I'm not necessarily against it. It would allow some of us to have "bragging rights". I just don't think it will have the impact that you're shooting for. -Justin On Thursday 17 June 2004 1:48 pm, Rachel Blackman wrote: > So, Jabber has been around for a while now. It's a great architecture, > we've all drunk the Kool-Aid as it were... but I've recently found a > lot of frustration in one area, and I know from discussion in the jdev > chatroom that I am far from the only one. > > The thing is, there are all these very cool Jabber featuresets out > there, but lots of them are not necessarily supported. Nor (other than > peer pressure) is there much incentive for people to implement certain > things. I can look at Jabber and go 'wow, pubsub is a cool backend > system, Stream Initiation will let me do a lot of really cool things > down the line' and be excited, but your average IM user (for instance, > my mother or father) will look at Jabber and go 'why can't I set a nice > little picture like under MSN? And why can't I use bold in my > messages?' and so on. Jabber is, architecturally, probably the most > advanced IM protocol out there, and it's a godsend to developers... but > to end-users, it doesn't really replace the AIM featureset or whatever. > > XHTML-IM has been a JEP for a rather long time, and few clients > implement it (and moreover, some of them implement it in a nonstandard > and wacky way!), and it's a fairly basic feature many IM end users look > for. And there's no real incentive (other than peer pressure, as I > said) for a client author to implement XHTML, so it ends up getting > pushed further and further down TODO lists and suchnot. > > So there was discussion in the chatroom today about a compliance and > certification program, with varying levels of certification and > differing requirements for the levels. Only certified clients would be > on jabber.org's client list, certified clients would get the right to > use a little 'certified' banner on their websites and in their > documentation or whatever, and it would ensure featuresets /do/ get > implemented for end-users. > > I am writing up a quick proposal about how to do this. If enough folks > like it (and there's not too much ensuing flamethrower usage in my > direction), I will write it up in JEP format and submit it. > > ** PROPOSED JABBER CERTIFICATION PROGRAM ** > > Each certification would have a year attached to it. For instance, > 'Jabber Basic Certified 2004' for a banner on a site. A certification > only lasts until the end of a calendar year, and then you have to > re-apply for certification; having a certification for a given year is > not a guarantee you will have it next year. Certifications can have > required features, and recommended features (i.e. 'MUST' and 'SHOULD'). > > The certification requirements for a calendar year would be set by a > Jabber Certification Board, presumably appointed by the Council. The > requirements for a given year would be decided on in July of the > previous year, giving individuals six months to implement the features > (and apply for certification ahead of time). For instance, if this > program were in effect, next month the Certification Board would have > to issue the certification requirements for 2005, giving all the > developers time to implement the features and apply for certification > before the end of 2004 (and thus the expiration of their existing > certification). > > To be certified, you would need to get a copy of the software in > question to the Board to use, and they'd run it against some kind of > validation suite. Presumably they'd have a process for testing, either > certain automated things they could point to or a script for > hand-testing it all. You could apply for more than one certification. > > A couple examples of certification types are shown below. These are > NOT actual proposals, just examples of what a certification list might > be. You'd actually want much longer and more detailed certification > criteria, of course. > > Jabber Client Minimal > - suitable for mobile or embedded clients > - required : roster management > - required : jid-to-jid chatting > - recommended: groupchat-1.0 > > Jabber Client Intermediate > - Suitable as a 'generic' client > - required : all of Jabber Client Minimal > - required : file transfer > - required : disco > - required : caps > - recommended: XHTML-IM > - recommended: avatars > > Jabber Client Extended > - Glitzier clients > - required : all of Jabber Client Intermediate > - required : xdata > - required : MU-C > - recommended: pubsub > > ...and so on. There would be certifications for servers, and you could > even add usability guidelines as recommended things to the Client > specifications, and so on. > > Any thoughts? > > --Rachel > > _______________________________________________ > jdev mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > https://jabberstudio.org/mailman/listinfo/jdev _______________________________________________ jdev mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://jabberstudio.org/mailman/listinfo/jdev
