Institutions always corrupt truth and spirituality. They are the vehicles of
confirmity and mass control.
Do you know, Hitler, Lenin, Stalin and innumerable oppressors were brought to
power by the 'same evil forces' that control the world.
Divisions are perpetrated on the basis of belief systems.
But, Truth is a pathless land and God is beyond 'belief'.
See through the veil...It's the Satan pretending to be the God...BEWARE.
Check out first the global economics and politics before you start believing
in any god or ideology.
Just a handful few thousand evil worshippers are controlling the billions of
people on earth...
The only way for liberation is 'individual spiritual enlightenment' and love,
not organized religion.
Sathya
Nachiketa <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I think it is good that we can see the extent to which you people
have studied Vivekananda or Gandhi to find material that suits you in your
project of Hindutva - please mark that I use "hindutva" as seperate from
Hinduism - one is a political ideology and another is a religion. People who
read this exchange will form their own opinions about what is right and what is
wrong. If one looks at the political uses to which religions have been used -
you will find half the evil/tragedies in human history arising from religious
faith. To transcend such evilness (i use the term consciously) one must look at
what causes such situations to develop i.e. one has to get out of tit-for-tat
solutions that you advocate. In this technological age where the smallest
millenerian group can end up destroying evetything, such exclusionary and
hatefilled approach towards what others believe in are a sure prescription for
disaster. Look at what is happening with the situation in Middle
East and Pakistan - mixing religion with politics has led to such incredible
tragdies - and yes, it is not hindutva that is the problem in these countries -
it is people who are using Islam and Christianity as political identity tools.
you want to apply the same model to India - draw us into a fanatical,
modernised hindutva ideology - where is it going to lead us. Protest against
conversion by evangelical christians by all means or even against Wahbabi Islam
- but not as a fanatic, hateful counterpoint through burning missionaries and
burning churces. Just for example - how many cases of forceful conversion have
been filed in the last eighht years in Orissa/Kandhmal under the
Anti-conversion law in last eight years of BJP-BJD rule.
Go by the rule of law- who stops you. However, Hindutvavadis will
deliberately flout the law and the legal system - for they are not interested
in stopping conversions, they are interested in keeping it alive so that they
can use it politically to establish their own form of fascist polity
Regards
Nachiketa
On 1/24/08, v <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
On 1/25/08, Environmental Protection Group Orissa < [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Just to illustrate differences between Hinduism and Hindutva
Regards
Nachiketa
Lime many Rajindar Sachar follows an outdated Hinduism. Hinduism has always
adjusted itself to the times. Eg today we do not really follow the Hinduism of
the vedic times do we?
Quoting Vivekananda is laughable. He said many things at many times. Compare
this Vivekananda, in fact, profusely praised Islam saying, "without the help
of practical Islam, theories of Vedantism, however fine and wonderful they may
be, are entirely valueless to the vast mass of mankind. For our own motherland
a junction of the two great systems, Hinduism and Islam ? Vedanta brain and
Islam body ? is the only hope".
See this
"Long years before Gandhi spoke his mind on Islam, Swami Vivekananda told a
gathering in London in November, 1896: "In the Quran there is the doctrine that
a man who does not believe these teachings should be killed. It is a mercy to
kill him! Think of the bloodshed there has been in consequence of such
beliefs!"
What is wrong with defene of Hinduism. How many of in the forum want to end
up as the 300,000 Kashmiri Pandits, who are refugee in their own homelands.
Shri Krishna tells Arjuna very clearly, do not act like a coward, do your
duty upholding dharma. Since nowadays we do not have our kshatiyaas or rajas
to look after the Hindus anymore, it becomes the task of every Hindu to do it.
To put things into perspecpective. What is arun shourie talking about: Read
the sachar recommendations. Any Hindu will be awakened by it:
The Politics of Seperatism - Sachar Committe report a MUST read for
every Indian
The Task force on Border Management, one of the four that were set up after the
Kargil war, reported with alarm about the way madrassas had mushroomed along
India's borders. On the basis of information it received from intelligence
agencies it expressed grave concern at the amount of foreign funds that flowed
into these operations. Those "educated" in these madarssas did not qualify for
jobs but as incendiary unemployables. It expressed gravest concern on what
these madrassas were doing, on how they were talibanising the Muslim youth. It
also advised that their reports be made public. Yet these reports were kept a
secret and in lieu of creating awareness and taking action against this burning
issue, the Sachar committee was instituted.
Arun Shourie the famous Indian Express columnist has summarized the
recommendations of the Sachar Committee as follows but before we go there, you
must know that this is the program every "secular" that is in government is
demanding that the government implement forthwith. And every secularist outside
the government ?CPI(M) for example is scolding the government for not
implementing swiftly enough.
Sachar Committee recommendations
1. It recommends the recognition of the degrees from madrassas for
eligibility in competitive examinations such as the civil services, banks,
defense services and other such examinations!
2. It recommends that Governments use public funds to encourage the formation
of Muslim NGOs and their activities
3. It recommends that government provide financial and other support to
occupations and areas which are Muslim dominated.
4. It recommends that Muslims be in selection committees, interview panels
and boards for public services
5. It recommends that a higher proportion of Muslims be inducted in offices
that deal with the public ? the teaching community, health workers, police
personnel, bank employees etc
6. It recommends provision of "equivalece" to madrassa certificate/degrees
for subsequent admission into institutions of higher education.
7. It recommends that government give special incentives to banks to open
branches in Muslim dominated areas
8. It recommends that instead of reporting "amount outstanding" banks should
report as "sanctions" or "disbursements" to minorities.
9. It recommends that financial institutions should set up separate funds for
Muslim entrepreneurs
10 It requires banks to set up special micro credit schemes for Muslims
11 It recommends that all districts more than a quarter of whose population
is Muslim be brought into the prime minister's 15 point program
12 It recommends that for each program of government, data be maintained
separately about the extent to which Muslims are benefiting from it
13 It recommends that each department institute new schemes for the benefit
of Muslims
14 It recommends special measures for the promotion of Urdu
15 It recommends that University grants be linked to the diversity of the
student population
16 It recommends that eligibility criteria for IIT be scaled down and
admission should be extended to madrassa educated children
17 It recommends that incentives to builders, private sector employees,
educational institutions be linked to diversity
18 It recommends that where Muslims are elected or selected in numbers less
that adequate, a carefully conceived "nomination" procedure be worked out to
increase the participation of minorities at grass root level.
The Sachar committee goes on to add that "It is imperative that if minorities
have certain perceptions of being aggrieved ? notice the touchstone ? "if the
minorities have certain perceptions of being aggrieved ? all efforts must be
made by the state to find a mechanism by which these complaints could be
attended to expeditiously. The mechanism should operate in a manner which gives
full satisfaction to the minorities" Notice again the touchstone ? not an
external criterion but "full satisfaction to the minorities" ? that any denial
of equal opportunities or bias or discrimination in dealing with them, either
by a public functionary or a private individual will immediately be attended to
and redress given.
The responsibility is fully on the "other" ? That the "other" must function
to the full satisfaction of Muslims. As long as the Muslims have certain
perceptions of being aggrieved, the "other" is at fault?.
As if all this was still enough, the committee has proposed a National Data
bank where it becomes mandatory for all departments to supply information on
how their activities are impacting Muslims and other minorities. On top of this
the Govt should set up an Assessment and Monitoring Authority to evaluate the
benefits that are accruing to the minorities from each program and activity.
What will be the consequences of such indiscriminate separatism at
aggregating the "Muslim vote bank"?
"If Muslims have special laws, special civil codes, special programs, special
incentives, special everything, if they wish to see themselves "Separate" from
us Hindus, if they have distanced themselves from us Hindus, why should we
cling to them? We should also knit ourselves tightly into one solid bloc"
Would Hindus need a Pravin Togadia to tell them this?
It is no wonder Modi won Gujarat with such a majority and thanks to the ploys
of the secularist parties and the even more fashionable secular media; Modi
today has come center stage on the national canvas!
The young, educated, modern, progressive, English speaking, Hindu will not
witness concessions and appeasement of the Muslim community and consistent
slights on Hindu sentiments routinely in a mute manner.
He will not be besotted by English media that chooses to distance itself
exactly in the same manner as Muslims and secularist parties distance
themselves; instead he will show each and every one of them who is BOSS!
The young, educated, modern, progressive, English speaking Hindu is a proud
Hindu, a prouder nationalist and he/she has resolved to asset himself, exert
himself and state the rules of the game upfront?..
http://nisha007.sulekha.com/blog/post/2007/12/arun-shourie-on-sachar-committe-report-must-read.htm
This is taken fro arun shourie's article
http://www.indianexpress.com/story/255484._.html
COLUMN
The Hinduism I know
Rajindar Sachar - [EMAIL PROTECTED]
January 28, 2008
http://www.indianexpress.com/story/264498.html
The Indian Express
I have read with chilling apprehension Arun Shourie's two articles on Hinduism
in The Indian Express (December 28 and 31) because these are not just his
individual views but seem to represent the BJP's election strategy. He claims
that Hinduism also includes a fundamentalist face of ferocious response, even
violence. He tells us that the Bhagavad Gita supports the maxim of 'Wickedness
to the wicked' ? and for these pearls of wisdom Shourie quotes Lokmanya Tilak
as his source (I refuse to attribute this sacrilege to the great Tilak ?I hope
more knowledgeable people will scotch this heresy). Naturally, Shourie
ridicules Gandhi for claiming inspiration from the Bhagavad Gita for his law,
'Truth even to the wicked'.
Even Hinduism's opponents have not suggested Shourie's view of Hinduism as a
religion that includes vengefulness. Most people accept Radhakrishnan's
definition of Hinduism as a way of life. 'Vasudhaiva kutumbakam' (the world is
one family) is the proud Hindu dictum of tolerance. Of course, fair-minded
people also accept that the same message of humanity and common good runs
through all religions. Thus the Holy Quran proclaims, "All the created ones
belong to the family of God... so, an Arab has no precedence over a non-Arab, a
White over a Black." And Christ said succinctly, "All are children of God."
Shourie's objection to Muslim women wearing headscarves is not on the grounds
of gender discrimination ? incidentally Shourie must have seen Muslim women in
India and more in Lahore and Karachi without head scarves; as well as Hindu
women in villages in Rajasthan and UP covering their heads and faces. He does
not treat this as a cultural practice separate from religion, but as a Muslim
ploy to underscore separateness. Like Shourie's family, my family is also
from West Punjab (now in Pakistan). Maybe he is too young to remember, but
after Partition, when Hindus came to India, all the older women and some of the
younger ones from rural and even urban areas willingly covered their heads in
public as part of the cultural tradition they had been brought up in, though
they were all devout Hindus. Carried to the extreme, the conclusion would be
that men in South India who wear dhotis are trying to announce their
separateness from the North, where we wear pyjamas. Hindus
and Muslims in the South wear the dhoti ? so how does the communal divide come
in? Shourie has his pet theory that Islam was spread in India by the sword.
Vivekananda, the greatest exponent of Hinduism, best repudiates this ? "the
Mohammedan conquest of India came as a salvation to the downtrodden, to the
poor. That is why one-fifth of our people have become Mohammedans." He also
said it was "the height of madness" to claim this was achieved by the sword.
Vivekananda, in fact, profusely praised Islam saying, "without the help of
practical Islam, theories of Vedantism, however fine and wonderful they may be,
are entirely valueless to the vast mass of mankind. For our own motherland a
junction of the two great systems, Hinduism and Islam ? Vedanta brain and Islam
body ? is the only hope". Vivekananda was not, as Shourie obliquely claimed,
referring to the 'Islamic body' as brute strength but to the freshness of
approach and message of equality brought in by Islam.
Vivekananda castigated the orthodoxy: "No man, no nation, my son, can hate
others and live; India's doom was sealed the very day they invented the word
'mlechcha' and stopped from communion with others". Shourie castigates
Christians because they oppose idolatry and refers to Ramakrishna Paramhans's
devotion to the goddess of Dakshineshwar. The spiritual height of Ramakrishna
Paramhans is undisputed. But then Christians are not the only opponents of
idolatry. Swami Dayananda, one of the greatest exponents of the Vedas in the
19th century (though born in a priestly family and brought up to worship the
idol of Shiva), says, "There is not a single verse in the Vedas to sanction the
invocation of the Deity, and likewise there is nothing to indicate that it is
right to invoke idols." He also said, "Idol worship is a sin." I am firm in
my conviction that any attempt to dilute the composite culture and inclusive
democracy of our country can only bring harm. As Maulana Azad's
soul-stirring speech (1940) put it, "I am a Muslim and proud of the fact. I am
indispensable to this noble edifice. Without me this splendid structure of
India is incomplete. Everything bears the stamp of our joint endeavour. Our
languages were different, but we grew to use a common language. Our manners and
customs were different, but they produced a new synthesis... no fantasy or
artificial scheming to separate and divide can break this unity". The writer,
a retired chief justice, was chairperson of the prime minister's high-level
committee on the status of Muslims.
