Hey folks, it is getting murkier. You all better confine your discussion on useless topic like conversion and keep debating on its merit or demerit.
But for god' sake please stop calling diffrent religions superior or inferior, and making generalisation on the basis of anecdotes from your life. You have come down to the level whereby you are actually offending the sensibilities of people like us who consider religion to be much more seious issue than to be debated like this. Your abominable comments about Mother Teresa, Acharya Rajneesh, Gandhiji are most stupid and perhaps based on your majestic ignorance about these great leaders and philosophers and humanists. If you know them well you will never make such offensive comments. If you have the audacity to comment on great philosophers and humanists like them then I think you need serious self reflection. You all seem to be learned people, yet the tone and tenor of your writings are highly abominable. How can, all of you who are continuously participating in this useless debate, can make such remarks on world's religions. These religions have given culture, values and moral srtength to common man. You are all doing disservice to the the culture and religion you belong to. I am not an expert on any religion and also not very knowlegeable about religions, but yet I dare say with conviction that every religion must be teaching us how to be "good human beings", and certainly not a "superior" human beings. Greatness comes from "goodness" not from "imagined superiority". To me conversions etc. are political, social and highly contextual phenomenon and better be left for the specialists to analyse them. JAI JHARKHAND, JAI HIND. VG. To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Tue, 6 May 2008 21:19:55 -0700Subject: Re: Re: [ =>> Jharkhand <<= ] RE: [ Jharkhand ] Conversion law : This is funny!!! This is getting funnier by the day and humourous aswell. Vikash goes to a Small town in Luxembourg and meets a fanatic Christian Missionary who tries to convert and bapize him on the spot. Vikash when you politely denied to accept their gentle invitation, did they chase you and hound you with a cross? That did not happen right. They left you too.Did they try to forcibly convert you using physical might. That didnot happen either ,right. They were merely practicing their conviction out of love.If u were not interested that was cool with them.Did they give you a few dollars, rice,wine to convert you.? NO even that did not happen.Is that conversion? Your definition of conversion is dramatically warped. How do you know they were paid Vikash? Did they show you their payslip? One conversion = 100 Euros.Its all a figment of your imagination isn't it? U are a liar, Vikash if you have no proof. The Missionaries in India never forced anyone to convert to Christianity. People willingly accepted a better religion that freed them from the oppression of a caste system which primarily extolled the Brahmins and the Rajputs. Everyone else was down trodden. In Christianity there is no such class. Everyone is the same and so people willingly sought refuge.The RICE was not used to convert it was merely used to feed the poor and the hungry as is written in The Holy Bible. Do the Americans and the Europeans complain about being converted to Hindusim by dubious Hindu leaders like Acharya Rajneesh and a few others.No.They just took it in the stride, because it was their own personal choice just like the adibasi's of chattisgarh. Noone is fooled by Missionaries mate.Donot think you are very intelligent, u maybe educated but it is not the same. People make their own intelligent choices. Donot assume that the uneducated adibasis who were converted were not intelligent. They were probably more intelligent than you and I. Not more educated like you and I but more intelligent. Education doesnot make one intelligent. Education only makes you more ignorant.Intelligence comes from your Being.It is easy to fool an educated mind like yours but u can never fool an intelligent being. So next time you go to Lux'bg try to be an Indian first and then a Hindu, christian, muslim whatever. If someone thinks his mission in life is to convert everyone to christianity just respect his mission, wish him the best and leave him alone, as long as he is not forcing you.Thats the beauty and essence of Hinduism. But only true Hindus will know that. Cheers isaac singh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: My Dear beloved friends bear with me. Even after myseveral humble request Mr. Gladson is creating hatredtalk by showing that he is peace loving creature whois following god jesus et al.*****************************************************I will tell you one story, I was in luxemborg(Smallcountry in Europe), and i was standing on bus station,there were group of people(New joinees, same astrainees in software) who had converge from all overworld in Luxemborg to learn about "How to convertpeople". One of folks from that group, when say abrown skin(That is me and my wife), started behavingpolite and abnormal, trying to have friendship withme.He mentioned that if required he can come to our houseand talk.we casually told him to search for another target forconversion. We are not interested.Now analysis:These people (like Mr. Gladson et al) are trained,experts in trying to convert people, they are paid forit. There Job is to convert people. How they do it:a) They will try to befriend you, talk about love,peace.b) They wil create fear "That govt or rich people willtake your land", you will be poor etc...c) They will create CHAOS and try to demoralize thelocal people.d) They will conduct workshop showing that it is forgood of people, But internally they will start workingon converting people.e) They will show the advantage of converting intochristianity(Money/Good future)We now need to make strict laws that these people arenot fooled by these missioniaries.They are goondas( rowdy) indulge in cheating peoplew.r.t to God. with best regardsVikash S. --- Gladson Dungdung <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:> My dear beloved friends bear with me. Even after my> several humble request Mr. Venkat is not stopping> his hatred talk. Now I believe that he does not> understand about humbleness, love, peace,> brotherhood and list goes on. > > My dearest Venkat let me tell you frankly that we> all are involved in conversion activities including> your parents, you and me therefore don't just blame> the Missionaries. When you born in this word you> were just a human baby bit unfortunatly born in the> family who belives in cetain religion. They started> conversion work and you were converted to certain> religion by your parents and when you grown you were> told that you belong to certain religion and you> also started behaving accordingly. > > Similary, you would do with you children, cousings> or relatives children. In this case, why don't your> children blame on you for converting them in the> religion which you belive and file a case against> you in the Police station and at the end your whole> family including your children would be in the Jail> because they did not have permission from the> goverment (freedom of Religion as you advocate) for> this conversion? There is nothing wrong but the> problem is you speak two languages at a time. when> you convert people you glorify it is like you won> the battle and if other do the same work you coin it> as a crime. Be rational and rascal. I would again> request to you please don't play with the people's> centiments. If you want to do something do for the> betterment of the "Humanity" which is all above of> the religion, caste, creed, gender, regionalism and> list goes on.> > rgds> Gladson Dungdung> > > > > On Fri, 02 May 2008 ven wrote :> >Nachiketa> >> >Why don't you migrate and take your anti tribal> religion..proc christian> >agenda somewhere else?> >Why don't you tell the Christian missionaires to> offer service without> >attempting to destroy native religins and gods and> beliefs.> >Tell them to only concentrate on development and> not mix it with religion.> >> >The problem originates with the missionaries as> this video amply> >demonstrates of Christian missionary work in tribal> areas.> >> >http://www.youtube.com/*******************> >> >> >On 5/2/08, Nachiketa <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:> > >> > > Dear All,> > >> > > Its my suggestion to serious people on this> listserve that you should not> > > pay any attention to these right wing "jokers"> who have been trying to> > > hijack this forum by posting highly offensive> material. The more we repsond> > > to them, the more leverage they get. Just ignore> them, and delete the emails> > > that they send. Extremists like these exist in> all societies, and our> > > efforts should be to fight them substantively-> there is no use engaging with> > > them through dialogue. They are just not open to> reason and rationality -> > > and negate the very conception of deliberation> and dialogue - which lies at> > > the heart of shared listserves such as this.> > >> > > Will someone who is day to day engaged in> Jharkhand issues like to start a> > > new listserve which is more moderated than this> one- where insults to> > > various religions and religious minorities are> moderated out. I would love> > > to join it and contribute on development issues.> I had requested our> > > rightwing hindutvavadi brothers to migrate some> other listserve, but they> > > seem to love the megaphone that this listserve> affords them. For those who> > > would like to see a moderated listserve which> allows respectful discussions> > > - please visit chattisgarhnet- which maintains a> fine line between freedom> > > of speech and creation of offense through> serious moderation.> > >> > > Regards> > >> > > Nachiketa> > >> > >> > >> > > On Thu, May 1, 2008 at 9:43 AM, BARBARA ali> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> > > wrote:> > >> > > > Dearest Walter,> > > >> > > > Fernandes with a (s) is English and (z) is> Spanish, wonder if you know> > > > this!!! Anyway we are now Indians first and> Indians last.So thanks for the> > > > few lines and hope all these apes on this site> stop aping about with rubbish> > > > and go on with the development of our youth> who are suffering so much due to> > > > idiots like these who are using politics to> batter our present day youth out> > > > of jobs, schooling and higher education too.> > > >> > > > Religion is man made, so be it and let us> unite for a better future and> > > > solve the many problems of our youth of today,> tomorrow they are the ones to> > > > lead India on.> > > >> > > > We are rotten examples of a few rotting apples> in the whats left of the> > > > good ones in India today.> > > >> > > > I thought only Anglo Indians were like crabs> in a over crowded backet,> > > > pulling each other back as one tries to climb> out of the over crowded basket> > > > to make place for the rest.> > > >> > > > May God give us the strength to fight> corruptiona nd injustice all the> > > > way , before its too late.> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > All the best in all you do,> > > >> > > > Barbara Thyab Ali> > > >> > > >> > > > ------------------------------> > > > To: [email protected]> > > >> > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > Date: Thu, 1 May 2008 08:38:54 +0530> > > >> > > > Subject: Re: [ =>> Jharkhand <<= ] RE: [> Jharkhand ] Conversion law :> > > > Mahatma Gandhi on Conversions> > > >> > > >> > > > I agree with you Barbara. I was very happy> when I started getting the> > > > material from the Jharkhand group because I> have worked on tribal issues for> > > > three decades. Soon I realised that some> fundamentalist elements have taken> > > > it over and were indulging in name calling and> making all types of> > > > allegations. There was no dialogue. I hope> that some sense will prevail in> > > > this e-group.> > > >> > > > Walter Fernandes> > > >> > > > ----- Original Message -----> > > > *From:* BARBARA ali> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> > > > *To:* [email protected]> > > > *Sent:* Sunday, April 27, 2008 9:01 PM> > > > *Subject:* RE: [ =>> Jharkhand <<= ] RE: [> Jharkhand ] Conversion law :> > > > Mahatma Gandhi on Conversions> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > Dear All,> > > >> > > >> > > > Indeed this makes us look like silly Goats!!!!> After all who are the> > > > real ancestors of us, from where and who are> you all come from???APES?????> > > > or Scape Goats!!!!!?????> > > >> > > > Let us all begin, with the simple lesson of> 'Humility' === message truncated === P V Isaac, Home:9874 1819 Mob 0415 144 981. " What you resist, will persist" www.jharkhand.org.in/forum
