well, the guys said it all, but i would like to add. I've compiled lfs a couple of times, the last time i done it, it took me 12 hours to build a highly optimized system, that would be the best to run for my machine, and yes, I've learned a lot from it, and if I have it running on my machine, I wouldn't replace it with any other distro. Well i could've made less optimization, and it still has a very good performance, with about 8 hours, but 8 hours is a hell lot of time, and i only had a booting system (you have to go with blfs to continue). and who has that much time. but in 30 minutes you would have an ubuntu system running, with most of the applications you need. also tracking dependencies, is so much annoying when installing new software, while a simple apt-get (yum for redhat based distros) would solve most of your problems. although ubuntu is much slower than a hard distro, but I would go for it in any new installation, to save a lot of headache. I've never tried gentoo, but it seams like a good deal that i have to go for it some time.
I also would recommend that anybody should install lfs at least once in his life, it really teaches a lot. On 3/5/07, Xushi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > As Zaid said, the community and documentation are one of the best i've > seen around. I even know many from other distros that refer to the > Gentoo docs and seek advice in Gentoo channels too. > > I'd like to also add, > > > ==== > Short Answer > ==== > If you want an alternative to Windows that > * works out of the box, or nearly out of the box > * no viruses/trojans etc.. > * fancy... > * <insert reasons> > > Then go for the pre-built distros, like Fedora, (k)ubuntu, Centos, etc. > > If you want to learn, want to know what you're doing, and want to rely > on yourself, then go for the more down-to-earth distros, like pure > debian, redhat, or even gentoo. > > If you want to dissect the OS, and know absolutely everything you need > to know, and not just a desktop OS, go for LFS. > > > === > Long Answer > === > > There are hundreds of distros out there, and you could create your own > in a month. The main things that determine how good a distribution > are, > > 1) Package management > 2) Documentation and ***user support*** > 3) Number of developers. > > There are a few more reasons of course, but i can't think of them at the > moment. > > > Pre-built distros - Ubuntu, Centos, etc.. > --------------------- > > These are ideal to start with linux, or to just have a working > alternative to Windows. Go for it. > > Linux or any other OS has two sides to it. The side where one would > just want to have a running OS to surf the web and not get any viruses > etc, and the other side where a user would actually like to know > what's going on, and how it runs. If you just would like a good and > solid system to use for office work, web browsing, image editing, etc, > then I wouldn't argue to use a custom built distribution such as > ubuntu or centos. But if you would like to learn more about the OS, > and rely on yourself when you need to edit something or enhance or > install something, then they are not the right distros for you. > > > Down-to-earth distros - Debian, Slackware, Gentoo, etc.. > --------------------------- > > I believe that knowing less in any OS, especially Unix/BSD/Linux, > reduces the learning curve as well as the knowledge on how to properly > use (and configure) an OS. Ones like Centos, (k)ubuntu, and Linspire > hide SO much from the user, you end up using linux for a year and not > knowing what is going on, or if a crash happens, how to recover from > it, or if there's a modification you wish to make or software to > install that isn't part of their package list, then what to do. > Granted, of course, you can't expect someone who has never tried Linux > to jump directly into LFS either. > > For example, simple things, > > * You have LAMP (apache/mysql/php) on your machine, but ubuntu's > packages would only give you module X and Y tehre, but not Z. You > would be able to know how to recompile LAMP, configure their .conf > files, and include the modules. > > * You have a custom machine that requires a custom built kernel to, > say, enable driver X for a card you have. That kernel used to be in, > say, Ubuntu 6, but not anymore in 7. You're stuck. What you should be > able to do and would know how to do it without even asking for advice > is know how to download the kernel source, patch it, use your custom > .config to create one, and use it. > > And then, moving on to the more difficult tasks such as, > > A bad shutdown causes file system corruption on ext3 and your journal > is gone. How to recover from it. If one of your libraries get > corrupted, how to recover. > > If your application keeps crashing, how to debug it and send the > results to the development team. > > Err.. what else.. > > If you go for a distro that is very low-end, then you learn the basics > that you can apply more or less in any other distro out there because > these things are common in any distribution you use. The easy ones > wont grant you access to learn about them that easily. The other > distributions such as pure debian, gentoo, slackware, etc... These > give you the opportunity to learn. This IMO is the main reason why > they call these distros the "hard distros". It's because you have to > sweat a little in the beginning :) > > > LFS / BLFS > -------- > LFS in my opinion is for those who really wish to know how a Linux OS > is built and runs. I wouldn't recommend it as a main distro to use on > your machine yet. I did one for my BSc dissertation in LFS 6.0, and i > found a few flaws with package management that restricts its > usebility. It might be better now, i'm not sure. If you would like to > read more about it, feel free to read my dissertation. It'll show you > a step by step tutorial on how to get your own distro running. > > http://www.xushi.co.uk/xushi/files/pdf/05%20-%20Creating%20and%20maintaining%20a%20secure%20and%20stable%20Linux%20Server%20Operating%20System.pdf > > > > =================== > > > Now.. As to why Gentoo? I believe it has one of the best combinations > of all of the above.Many think that one would install Gentoo for > speed. I disagree. One should install Gentoo for performance. And it's > not that hard anyway.. I helped two friends move directly from windows > to gentoo and they couldn't be more happier. You can go through the > old way to install, or you can run the gui image, and move on from > there (still beta afaik) > > Package management > --------------- > It has one of the best package managers i've seen. Best of all, it > compiles everything for you. How is that good? > > Pre-built distros give you binaries, that are compiled on their > servers, probably using a generic gcc compiler with safe/basic CFLAGS. > With Gentoo, you use your own compiler that is even compiled itself > against YOUR hardware and your system, giving you the best performance > and optimisation you can have. Furthermore, any application you > install, it compiles it in your machine. Sure, it takes longer to > install an app... But to me, so what? let it compile. It's fun :) In > the end, i end up with a tailored OS and tailored packages to my own > hardware. > > For those that used LFS, the difference between LFS and Gentoo is that > with Gentoo you tell it to install X, sit back, relax, and it does > ***everything*** for you. You don't have to type any thing else :) > > Support > ------------- > The gentoo wiki is one of the best i've seen. And the community is one > of the most intelligent and friendly i've seen. I've contributed and > been in slackware, debian, solaris, and gentoo in IRC to come to this > conclusion. > > Knowledge > --------------- > You go through Gentoo, you can go through any other distro out there. > You yourself feel secure from the inside. You feel proud that you know > not only how to fix something if it breaks, but also how to look for > the result and find the result in a quick and professional manner. > > > Anyway, all this is just my opinoin based on a couple of years of > experimenting on redhat, mandrake, slackware, lfs, freebsd, solaris > and gentoo. Everyone have their own views on their distros, and > everyone's views are valid. Just keep an open mind for experimentation > once in a while, and the world is yours :) > > > > > > > > > On 05/03/07, Zaid Amireh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > I dont normally jump onto the distro perverbial bandwagon, but I'll > > > indulge myself just this one time.. Why Gentoo? > > > > > > Will somebody be kind enough to list tangible traits? just for the > > > sake of curiosity.. I'm a Debian/Ubuntu person myself btw. > > > > two reasons: > > > > 1 - the learning curve in the beginning teaches so much that IMHO any > > 'serious' linux user has to do it. > > > > 2 - the community. its community is so great that I still go to 'Off > > The Wall' almost daily just to stay in touch with them. > > > > If you haven't tried it or gave it the enough time then you are wasting > so much. > > > > just MHO after all. > > > > Zaid > > > > > > > > > > (promise I wont troll if you guys dont :) ) > > > > > > > > > On 04/03/07, Xushi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > > Been using Gentoo for over 2 years now, and i wouldn't change it for > any > > > > other > > > > distro :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sunday 04 March 2007, Ammar Ibrahim wrote: > > > > > On 3/4/07, Xushi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > Funny you asked that.. > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm currently testing Kubuntu and planning on replacing my work > XP OS > > > > > > with it (unless i have the time to install gentoo). > > > > > > > > > > Ask Zaid about Gentoo :) And I promise you, you will not consider > it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > Xushi > > > > ><ushi.co.uk > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Saleh M. Odeh > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > --------------------------- > > Netiquette -> http://www.dtcc.edu/cs/rfc1855.html > > Netiquette Nazi -> > > http://redwing.hutman.net/%7Emreed/warriorshtm/netiquettenazi.htm > > --------------------------- > > > > > > > > > > -- > \/ushi - xushi.co.uk > /\ - socialprotest.com > > > > -- Ala'a A. Ibrahim http://guru.alaa-ibrahim.com/ --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Jolug" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Jolug?hl=en-GB -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
