Kakki: Thanks for your latest mail. As you say, there seem to be problems of communication between us. I think I have gone well out of my way to make it clear that my remarks are not personal in any way, but it seems not to have worked. Your latest reply mentions a number of points to which I discuss here, and for the last time. I don't think we will agree on many things but I want to reply to your comments before I close our communication. It is not getting us anywhere and I'm sure people must be tiring of it too.
1. Kakki said: >> Others have privately noted to me that they have interpreted your posts just exactly as I have.<< I too have people who comment on and off-list in favour of my views but I refuse to use them to back up my case. I will not play this game. 2. Mike said >>I want to hear other people's opinions and if I have to drag this out of people by 'provocative' postings, then I will do so, always without viciousness or insults.<< Kakki responded with: >>Why would you feel you have to "provoke" me or anyone else? I find that a bit condescending<< As I said above, I want to hear other people's opinions. I used 'provocative' in quotes in an ironic sense. 'Provocative' in the sense of to provoke something, in this case an opinion. 'Provoke' in the sense of 'cause something to happen'. To provoke something, not provoke anyone. Sorry if my irony escaped you. I don't find it condescending to use this method of questioning. It is the Socratic method and has a long and noble pedigree. 3. Kakki said: >>A serious charge had been made here that Americans support the IRA and then /// that it couldn't be believed that Irish Americans did not all know about NORAID and that it was a front for the IRA.<< This remark needs to be split into two, where indicated by the slashes a). Yes, a serious charge (I prefer 'strong comment' but never mind) was made, but not by me. Personally, I would have said a small or tiny minority of Americans, but I did agree with Colin (who, in fact, made this 'charge') when he said that the scale of fundraising by NORAID and other groups is way beyond 'passing a hat here and there 30 years ago'. b). I do not accept that the second half of Kakki's remark (the part referring to me) constitutes a 'serious charge', at least against myself. I prefaced my remarks with the comments that they were not directed at Kakki or anyone else, and followed this up by saying: >>I accept that Kakki has no knowledge of this fundraising and believe her statements of innocence and ignorance. What surprises me is that NORAID is unknown to people of Irish descent, like Kakki, and others. It is widely known in Britain and is hardly a secret in many places in the USA. I am genuinely surprised to hear Kakki's reaction. No more than that.<< Please note my use of 'surprise' and 'genuinely surprised'. This is not a cynical way of saying anyone (and Kakki in particular) is lying. In fact I say explicitly that I believe her. I simply said that it was a surprise, something unexpected. No more than that. 4. Kakki said: >>I attempted to respond to that (the charges of American funding of IRA terrorism) in order to broaden understanding or debunk misunderstandings. Do you think that responding to a serious charge is to be met with playing "devil's advocate" or "provocation" which to some people can seem to be like "baiting."<< I hope you are not implying that I am under any obligation to reply to a 'serious charge' made by another person.Nevertheless, what Colin, myself, and Rob Etteridge said about NORAID collecting money for the IRA is true. I feel no obligation to defend myself of this charge but I too am prepared to attempt 'to broaden understanding or debunk misunderstanding' in your words. I'm sorry if the way I do this appears to you like baiting. It is not intended to bait you and I'm sorry that you feel baited. 5. Kakki said: >>I will try to avoid discussions in the future where my voice really does not want to be heard, except perhaps to play around with me.<< I DO want to hear your voice and I DO NOT play around with you. You and others have explicitly asked for information on these matters and Mack, Mary Powers, Philip, Catherine, Rob and others have attempted to provide it, as have Colin and myself. Again, I can't understand why this is received as criticism, especially as personal criticism of you. You asked me to say where I was coming from. I told you as explicitly as I possibly could. As a 'reward' I get accused of being on a 'head trip', after you agreed not to analyse my thoughts any further. 6. Kakki said: >>If you go back and read your posts, many of your comments have been that you can't believe me that Irish Americans would not know about NORAID or that it supports the IRA.<< If YOU go back and read MY posts you will see the following: >> I am not suggesting that the U.S. government supports the IRA, and I don't believe the blanket statement that 'Americans (sic) support the IRA' and would never say this myself<< >> I simply expressed surprise that these facts (that NORAID channels money to the IRA for weapons) are unknown to many, and it's especially surprising, to me, that if we throw an Irish ethnic background into the equation.<< >> I am absolutely sure that the majority of these (Irish American) people DO give (to NORAID)for this reason (thinking that they were just trying to help poor children).<< 7. Kakki said that: >>Many people, unfortunately are just not savvy or educated enough to suspect it (NORAID money) may be really going to the IRA and that they are being duped.<< I said that I found it a little harder to believe that the Irish Americans were 'not savvy', or 'not educated enough' to have heard of NORAID. This is an insulting and stereotypical view of the Irish, as is your use of 'naive' or 'soft-hearted' in other places. This does not mean that every Irish American must have heard of it, only that there are many Irish Americans who have heard about NORAID and understand its real motives, as well as the people who genuinely give for charitable reasons. There must be US intelligence material on NORAID somewhere. Can anyone find it? 8. >>I'm not all hurt, like some suggest.<< I hope you are not suggesting that I have hurt you or tried to. Either way I'm glad you are not hurt. >> There are much more important matters going on in the world and my life at the moment to get bent over this stuff.<< Good. Good luck with them. mike
