Dear Smitha,
This mail is not for your friend. But for you to maintain your faith. But if
you have a chance to explain him in a decent way (No use in fighting about
our faith and their faith) please take that risk too.
At least your friend agreed the 24 elders from Old Testament could intercede
for others. So the only one mediator theory is over. Now there are at
least 24 + 1 = 25 mediators (including Jesus). Very good, tell him to stand
at least there. But isn't it very sad that God found only 24 good people
from the Old Testament?
According to some scholars the 24 is a symbolic number representing 12
tribes of Israel and 12 Apostles of Jesus. That symbol defined as the
presence of Holy people, who sacrificed their lives for God and His Good
News. (When you see a vision there would be many symbols, that will need
interpretations)
Rev 6 9, when he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls
of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony which
they heldand they were praying. (In this vision of Heaven St. John saw,
those who slain for the word of God means those who slain for Jesus)
Rev 7-9:17 John saw in Heaven countless multitude of people from all parts
of the world, standing in front of the throne, and those were the ones come
out of great tribulations and washed their robs and made them white in the
blood of the lamb. (Means they were either those who suffered for Jesus or
those who been cleansed by the precious blood of Jesus)
Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in
me will live, even though he dies;
and whoever lives and believes in me will never die. Do you believe this?"
John 11:25-26
This is a vital text that Mother Mary and other saints and believers are
still alive and interceding for others.
I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this
bread, he will live forever. This bread is my flesh, which I will give for
the life of the world." Then the Jews began to argue sharply among
themselves, "How can this man give us his flesh to eat?" John 6:51-52 (those
who have the same Jewish mentality cant understand all these)
I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third
heaven. Whether it was in the body or out of the body I do not know-- God
knows. And I know that this man-- whether in the body or apart from the body
I do not know, but God knows, was caught up to paradise. 2 Cor 12:1-4 (St.
Paul saw in a vision, a man in Christ who belied in Christ, caught up to
Paradise)
Smitha, your friend is very clever how can we give examples from the Bible
about the New Testament people in Heaven, if the NT was written in the
period while they were alive on earth.
Our faith is not only based on the Bible alone. But also on our tradition,
experiences etc. How many places Mother Mary still appears. Isnt it a proof
that our dearest Mother is still alive?
Love
Sebastian
>From: Joji Joseph <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>CC: Sebastian Kakkasseri <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Subject: RE: Re:[JOYnet] Mother MARY
>Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 00:13:33 -0500
>
>Hi,
>
>In this context can we consider that the verse Lk 23:43, And Jesus said
>unto
>him (thief), Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in
>paradise.
>
>Doesn't this mean that there is life after death??
>
>Love and prayers,
>Joji
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sebastian Kakkasseri [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2001 11:50 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Fwd: Re:[JOYnet] Mother MARY
>
> >From: "Thomaskutty - Smitha" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED],
>UNEXPECTED_DATA_AFTER_ADDRESS@.SYNTAX-ERROR
> >Subject: Re:[JOYnet] Mother MARY
> >Date: 18 Jul 2001 11:09:52 -0000
> >
> >Dear All,
> >
> >I have a colleague who is a protestant. I was just talking to him
> >regarding this same topic when I got this mail.
> >What he has to say about this is that those who were in the old
>testament
> >they rose with Christ into the resting place of God the Father. He
>is
> >quoting revelation where in it is mentioned about the 24 elders who
>are in
> >the presence of the Lord - According to him and his teachings
>Moses and
> >Samuel are one of those elders who have been in the presence of the
>Lord
> >since long. (By this he means to say that those who came under the
>new
> >covenant i.e. after Jesus, do not go up into the presence of the
>Almighty
> >but they rest in peace till our lord Jesus's second coming and on
>that day
> >they all will be risen)
> >
> >I want you all to help me to find out biblical verses where such
>things can
> >be given to him for further reference and thought, and also to make
>him
> >aware that even the Catholics base their faith on the bible and not
>on
> >anything else.
> >
> >
> >Love and Prayers in Christ,
> >
> >Smitha Thomas
> >Ahmedabad
> >
> >On Wed, 18 Jul 2001 07:12:04 -0000 Sebastian Kakkasseri
> ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >Somebody asked me, it is true St. Paul requested intercessory
>prayers
> >from
> > >people who were alive. But Mother Mary already dead and Bible
>don_t teach
> > >the dead people can intercede for us?
> > >
> > >Answer
> > >
> > >In the book of Jeremiah chapter 15, we could read God telling
>Jeremiah
> >that
> > >_even if Moses and Samuel (who died before Jeremiah_s time) pray
>I won_t
> > >forgive this people_. That means even after death, the Holy
>people are
> >able
> > >to pray and their prayers are powerful. The usage of _even if
>Moses and
> > >Samuel_, reveals their prayers are more acceptable.
> > >
> > >Love
> > >Sebastian
> > >
> >
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