Hello all Joyful people, It's nice to see so many joynetters talking on Love, which is a foundation of human relationship. Love starts with an emotion, it is directly connected with heart. We love with our hearts not with our minds. Our heart is involved first when we fall in love and with our minds we make a commitment.
I agree perfectly with Ravi, Christopher and Godwin. We shud learn the way God loves us unconditionally. We are human beings and our emotions are always at play. God did not create robots but Human beings who have free will. Nowehere is it mentioned that 2 people getting married cannot or shud not be in love with each other before marriage. Yes I call it rightly falling in love. It's an act of humility which only Love can bring. It definitely starts with an attraction (physical, intellectual, etc) but doesn't continue to remain. By falling I mean when you start knowing the person you are in love you tend to know also how different the person is from you and then you encounter lot of falls even as u try to adjust, but important thereafter is rising where the mind gets involved. How can one define the rise without experiencing the fall. It's like how can you love the light if you don't know what is dark. Jesus says Unless a grain of wheat falls into the ground and dies then will it bear much greater fruit. I remember here the Love of Jesus, for He loved us so much he felled down three times for the sake of our love but He stood up and died (again fallen) but then was risen. Love is definitely an emotion but Christ asks us to take one step ahead, He teaches us to make Love our decision. Christ made a decision to die to fulfil the love towards His Father and His Love for us. Thats why we should involve Christ. The modern world has changed the definition of Love - made it more physical, sexual. But we shud understand the definition of Love in the words of God. For God so loved the world that He gave His only Son to die for us. There are so many who say that I love you so much I can die for you and there are many who have done it. But so different both the contexts are - The first one is God's love which is saving whereas the other is selfish. We cannot deny the fact that by nature we also are selfish. There are very few who die to self everyday to make their partner happy. This is called sacrificial love which Christ teaches us. Love without sacrifice is mere words without any meaning. (eg. Love of Abraham to God) For me Love is an emotion which is natural and allowed by God (Rachael & Jacob, etc). What is important is to know whether to cultivate this emotion or no. Before falling in love you cannot ask God whether I shud love this guy or know. God has made each and every one a free person & our loving God respects our freedom. But on our part as His loving children, we have to surrender the person whom we like to Him and ask whether His will is there or no. After all God wants us to give us eternal joy not momentary happiness. And our Lord who knows what is the best for us will guide us. Who can understand Love other than God who is Love personified. Many also say that most of the love marriages fail. I don't completely disagree. But how many arranged marriages are successful? Instead of blaming the criteria of marriage, important to get to know the root cause of marriage failures. I cannot comment on the marriages being broken in other religions. When a Christian marriage breaks, then there can be only a spiritual reason. I can say this with confidence because it is the word of God that says what God unites, let no man divide. But it is not said in the Bible what God unites, let satan not divide.....he he but it's surely not a joke. This was a revelation that God has given me which I wud like to share with you all. Many Christian marriages are broken because Christ is not present as a third important partner in a marriage. And why this happens because where there is sin, there God cannot come. The marriage couple gets so involved in the other preparations (reception, clothes, music, entertainment of guests, etc.) that they forget the most important thing and that is the sacrament of CONFESSION. When we are preparing for Sacrament of Matrimony, we so easily forget that Christ is also going to be our partner may it be love marriage or arranged marriage and thus instead of Christ, the third partner is non other than the evil one. Where satan is there, there only division and destruction is, how can such marriages be successful. Every couple getting married should prepare oneself well by confessing all their sins and coming before the Lord with pure heart, mind, body and soul. Such couples are blessed with the presence of Christ who is an active partner in marriage and though many ups and downs come in marriage, Christ will let them through. Because He is the common person out of all the differences Who will bind them together. And He is also the one who understands both perfectly and will take away all the misunderstandings owing to which many marriages break-up. How many couples like Tobias start their married life by surrendering their partner and themselves to the will of God. How many continue their personal prayer and family prayer after marriage? Love marriage or arranged marriage is not the criteria for a happy and successful marriage. There is a saying wherein Husbands & Wives are called each other's better half's but these two halves can only remain together as one when they are bonded by a strong hold i.e. Christ.......shud I say Jesus ka majbooth jodh hain tutega nahin. When the most important PERSON is missing who holds the couples together how can they survive the storms of life?? they will only split and separate. May God give wisdom to all the newly weds and those who will be joined in the wedlock soon to prepare themselves to receive Christ and be rest assured that He is in control of their lives. Love & Prayers Jennifer Fernandes Mumbai ----- Original Message ----- From: "Godwin Manuel(IS&T)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Christopher D'Souza" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2003 12:43 PM Subject: RE: [JOYnet] Re: [Joynet] Falling in love before marriage is wrong > I appreciate your views Christopher as they were very much logical and > substantial before arriving at any solid conclusion. "Falling in love" is > merely not a standard procedure (my personal view) that is available as > off-the-shelf product. Many of us who have gone this way would have really > felt the pain and agony that resulted from it. > > Falling in love is an art of its own - a divine art which should not be > confused with fantasies of this world - finding the right partner which > involves individual tastes of both parties, basic attraction, emotion and a > whole host of other faculties. > > Before anybody could fall into an "genuine" love affair, he or she does not > even think of how short this relation is going to work out, rather they are > prepared to carry on until the end. What I meant to say is each of them is > committing themself to the other in all means and expect this to continue > into the eternal. Now, what needs our attention is how much are we prepared > to invite Jesus into this relationship? Are we going to seek His > intervention before deciding to give onself to the other? This is the > crucial link that binds any "genuine" relationship and which many couples > ignore. And that's the crux of the matter of our discussion. > > How do we know that he/she is the chosen one from the beginning of time to > become our lifepartner ? Here we need a lot of prayers and discernment > before we could take a decision. I personally feel, without getting the > concent from our Lord Jesus (in many ways He has decided for us), it is > always better to wait n wait n wait....and at His appointed time, it would > be revealed to us. > > Thank you Christopher and ye friends in Christ for this wonderful session. > > In Jesus, > Godwin, Fujairah. > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Christopher D'Souza [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2003 10:17 AM > > To: JoYNet > > Cc: Wilson Thomas; PRADEEP GEORGE > > Subject: Re: [JOYnet] Re: [Joynet] Falling in love before marriage is > > wrong > > > > Dear JYs > > > > I am not yet married, but would like to share my views ...I am assuming > > that we are > > speaking of falling in love in the context of looking for a marriage > > partner ... > > > > If I decide based on emotional assent, is it falling in love? If I make my > > decision > > after intellectual consent, am I avoiding the pitfalls of 'falling in > > love'? > > (Wo)Man is an integrated whole...comprising body, mind and spirit. If > > acting on > > emotions alone is wrong, then merely consenting with one's intellect could > > also be > > wrong. > > To expect only the intellectual part of me (or my that of my parents)to > > consent and > > expect not a stir from my emotions is to stoically deny that God has given > > me an > > endocrine system as he has given me a digestive or nervous system. To be > > swayed > > only by emotional highs without using my mental faculties is to make a > > decision as > > reliable as the shifting sands. What is needed is a balance of all our > > faculties - > > in this way we make a decision of a human being fully alive in the glory > > of God (St > > Ireneaus). It is like...my mind says 'Compatible, good family, suitable > > educated, > > sipritual , a JY " :-) etc.. My feelings say 'Wow, it feels good , happy > > to be > > around with him, her., lots of peace..etc". My will says 'Im going ahead > > and making > > the decision'.. This may not happen in every case but we need to > > remember that > > we are human beings holding a divine treasure and not purely spirit in > > nature .. > > > > What is most important is that we find the partner of God's choosing...the > > one in > > this perfect will for us. > > > > To me the question of falling in love is not the main one...It is how > > prepared I am > > ; spiritually, mentally, emotionally, physically to receive the person God > > has > > chosen for me..an then, if I do fall in love with her/him, I am falling in > > love > > with the one God has chosen....who can question that? .Irrespective of > > how I meet > > her/him - courtship varies across cultures and God is 'broadminded' (to > > put it in > > human terms) enough to allow for such variations - whether I fall in > > love or > > not, God needs to be at the center of my decision making if I want to have > > a > > successful marriage.. Of course, we need to be careful to avoid lust and > > sexual > > aberrations etc and the examples of selfish and lustful encounters that we > > have in > > most movies > > The biblical examples ( Isaac and Rebecca Gen 24; Jacob and Rachel Gen 29; > > Ruth and > > Boaz Ruth 2 ; Tobias and Sarah Tob 7 ) do not happen in the same > > stereotyped > > fashion... they all happen differently..BUT , the common thread that runs > > thru is > > that all of them lived in the will of God. And that made finding their > > partner > > easier. > > > > So, rather than take a radical stance on falling in love, there seems to > > be a much > > broader perspective, where all the faculties of the individual are > > involved in > > choosing a partner after much prayer and seeking after the will of God.. > > > > Love and prayers, > > Christopher > > Chennai, India > > > > Wilson Thomas wrote: > > > > > Pradeep, > > > > > > You are absolutely wrong. Falling in love before marriage is wrong, > > either > > > for flesh, or for whatever divine relation we call it. I can show you > > > hundreds of youngsters believing in these and get cheated. The "right" > > for > > > God is not the "right" we choose, but He choose. He choose not as we > > think, > > > but through "OTHER" right persons in right time. If we choose like > > modern > > > society, we will be changing it every now and then. That is where the > > > "Spirit of the World" will guide us through. Please dont get cheated... > > If > > > we are lacking love in our life, don't borrow it from the street, but > > get it > > > abundantly from Jesus. > > > > > > If you think that a girl is chosen for you, get married first with the > > > permission of your guardians and Church. Then love her with whole your > > > heart. Anything outside that is adultery. If not, we don't need such a > > > divine sacrament called marriage. ONLY by this sacrament two flesh > > becomes > > > one. > > > > > > Praise the Lord > > > > > > Wilson Thomas > > > Singapore > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "PRADEEP GEORGE" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > To: "JoYNet" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > Sent: Sunday, February 16, 2003 10:53 PM > > > Subject: [JOYnet] RE::Valentine's day..is it ok to fall in love ? > > > > > > > I think there is nothing wrong in falling love with some one. > > > > > > > > But > > > > >"young people are so much encouraged and pressurized to somehow fall > > in > > > > > love even at the risk of making a wrong decision and regretting it > > till > > > > the > > > > > end of our lives . " > > > > > > > > This is not the right ..no doubt... > > > > Love is divine.But only for the sake of saying " i too have an > > affiar" > > > is > > > > not the right way .... > > > > > > > > Ofcourse there is some one whom Jesus has selected for all of us > > from > > > > the very beginning.And he will reveal whom it is at the right > > time.We > > > > need not ry to know it before that , I think. > > > > > > > > We can (and we should) pray for the person whom God have selected > > for us > > > > from eternity .FOr that we need not know who it is... > > > > > > > > We had a preist , who taught us to pray for our future life partner. > > that > > > > was during the catechism classes in our tenth standard. > > > > I belive it is the right way and i do remember his words during > > all > > > pray > > > > times. > > > > > > > > Finally ,deepak has asked for advice from married people in the > > > group.Anyway > > > > I am not falling into that category.Still just wanted to tell my views > > on > > > > this matter. > > > > > > > > regards and prayers > > > > > > > > pradeep george > > > > thrissur. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: "deepak" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > Sent: Sunday, February 16, 2003 9:51 AM > > > > Subject: [JOYnet] Valentine's day..is it ok to fall in love ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear Bros & sis > > > > > i have a question for all of u . do u think it is > > alright > > > for > > > > > young people to fall in love ?.be coz of this situation now > > ..valentines > > > > day > > > > > is so commerciallised that it would seem a tragedy to have no one > > with u > > > > on > > > > > Feb 14 th ..no one to give a card ..etc... > > > > > so now young people are so much encouraged and pressurized to > > somehow > > > fall > > > > in > > > > > love even at the risk of making a wrong decision and regretting it > > till > > > > the > > > > > end of our lives . so Guys what do u suggest ??? > > > > > what would Jesus want us to do in such a situatu\ion ...would jesus > > like > > > > us to > > > > > fall in love with some one?..is there some one Jesus selected for us > > in > > > > the > > > > > very begining ..if there is how will we know?...what are the factors > > > which > > > > any > > > > > young person should rethink if he or she find herself to be > > attraced to > > > > wards > > > > > someone? > > > > > i really don't know how many young people are in this group but i > > > > certainly > > > > > know there are many married people in this group ..think u can > > enlighten > > > > us > > > > > with your experience?.... > > > > > luv deepak > > > > > trivandrum india > > > > > > > > > > > > > ========================================================================== > > == > > > === > > > > This mail is generated from JOYnet, a Jesus Youth mailing list. > > > > For more info on the list visit http://www.jesusyouth.org/joynet > > > > To unsubscribe from the list send a mail to > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > To subscribe to the list visit http://www.jesusyouth.org/joynet/join > > > > In case of any issue related to the mailing list contact > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > > > ========================================================================== > > == > > > === > > > > > > > > ========================================================================== > > ===== > > > This mail is generated from JOYnet, a Jesus Youth mailing list. > > > For more info on the list visit http://www.jesusyouth.org/joynet > > > To unsubscribe from the list send a mail to > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > To subscribe to the list visit http://www.jesusyouth.org/joynet/join > > > In case of any issue related to the mailing list contact > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > ========================================================================== > > ===== > > > > ========================================================================== > > ===== > > This mail is generated from JOYnet, a Jesus Youth mailing list. > > For more info on the list visit http://www.jesusyouth.org/joynet > > To unsubscribe from the list send a mail to > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > To subscribe to the list visit http://www.jesusyouth.org/joynet/join > > In case of any issue related to the mailing list contact > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > ========================================================================== > > ===== > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------ > Disclaimer > > - This message and any attachment(s), may contain privileged or proprietary information, > and is intended for sole use of the addressee(s). > Total or paritial reproduction, communication,distribution or use of this information by persons > other than the addressee(s) is prohibited. > - If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender and delete the message. > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------ > > ============================================================================ === > This mail is generated from JOYnet, a Jesus Youth mailing list. > For more info on the list visit http://www.jesusyouth.org/joynet > To unsubscribe from the list send a mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > To subscribe to the list visit http://www.jesusyouth.org/joynet/join > In case of any issue related to the mailing list contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] > ============================================================================ === =============================================================================== This mail is generated from JOYnet, a Jesus Youth mailing list. 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