Indeed... And sometimes there is something to be said for doing stuff 'wrong', by which I mean experimenting with EQ, compressors, whatever it is, as you can often discover some pretty evil (in a good way hopefully), sounds and unusual effects by stretching the use of the tools at our disposal to and beyond their intended function...
Mark On 13/07/2010, Chris Belle <[email protected]> wrote: > Well, what ever works for you and gets you by is right 'grin'. > > At 08:05 AM 7/13/2010, you wrote: >>HI, >> >>I can't quite remember the biological explination for this (I've an >>accademic background in human genetics and biology rather than audio >>stuff which is just a passtime)... But there is a strange thing you >>have to remember in terms of the human ear's perception of sound, >>which means just relying on meters and readings digitally given inside >>something like Sonar won't always help: >> >>Human hearing basically hears higher frequencies as being louder, even >>when at the same absolute 'volume' as lower ffrequencies. I now have a >>vague recollection that the biological explination for this is that >>hearing is specifically 'tuned in' to frequencies roughly about the >>frequencies of human speech. Anyhow, the upshot of which is that I >>think most people notice more easily when there is a lack of high >>frequencies/trebble moreso than they do if its the very low 'sub' >>frequencies that arn't there... I guess this also helps explain why it >>sounds so dredful when you hear a car pass down the street blasting >>music out with its windows closed.... Only the low frequencies escape >>from the car as they've larger wavelengths, whilst the higher >>frequencies with their shorter wavelengths get blocked and muffled >>before they can escape... >> >>Not quite sure what I'm trying to add here to the discussion, but I >>guess to say I think this is probably the reason why cutting out very >>high frequencies in a simular way to what is often useful/good for low >>frequencies, produces a result that just 'sounds wrong'... This seems >>to be the case even when they're high frequencies theoretically above >>the limit of human hearing; again I guess harmonics comes into play >>with that as well to a certain extent... >> >>Personallly though I can find this quite tricky at times as my hearing >>is lacking certain frequencies (which differ between my ears), but to >>some extent its possible for me to get round this not so much by just >>listening to the tune I'm working on, but by compairing it to other >>commercial songs, and that can help me judge when I've done some >>boosting or cutting in my own mix, which is less to do with making it >>sound better, and more to do with myself compesating for my dodgy >>hearing by altering the overall EQ of the song... >> >>Mark >> >>On 13/07/2010, Chris Belle <[email protected]> wrote: >> > Read the second part of his message, he mentioned both. >> > >> > At 11:31 PM 7/12/2010, you wrote: >> >>...He said high pass. >> >>On 7/12/2010 9:22 PM, Chris Belle wrote: >> >>>I agree about the low pass filters, >> >>>unless I'm going for a low fi sound on purpuse, because even on a >> >>>voice chopping off too much of the top end makes it sound yucky. >> >>> >> >>>Like a library of congress talking book tape 'smile'. >> >>> >> >>>At 07:06 AM 7/12/2010, you wrote: >> >>>>I often tend to do it quite similar I think... Not sure how >> >>>>'authodox' it is, but my useual approach is to stick the track or bus >> >>>>EQ on, and put a 'high pass' filter on, and starting from the bottom >> >>>>raise the frequency until I just* notice its cut out a bit of audible >> >>>>sound; basically filtering off the frequencies that people either >> >>>>can't hear, or don't have the speakers to be able to reproduce. >> >>>> >> >>>>Having said that, I can definately hear down to 20 HZ on my monitors, >> >>>>and on my larger HiFi speakers, but its just not there at all on my >> >>>>little HiFi speakers or my small monitor speakers (an early purchase >> >>>>on route to the somewhat better set-up I have now)... >> >>>> >> >>>>I've also tried the same with putting a low pass filter on, and >> >>>>starting at a high frequency moving down, but I just don't like the >> >>>>sound when your missing even the very high frequencies (though again >> >>>>I'm guessing much of what you hear as you say is the harmonics of >> >>>>audio with frequencies above 22 or 23 KHZ - still supprized I can >> >>>>hear the high frequences now I'm getting a little* older...) >> >>>> >> >>>>Actually, there were some good articles and guides about using EQ in >> >>>>Sound on Sound magazine (which are free online as they're oldish >> >>>>articles), and also on audio tuts (think that is spelt right). :- I >> >>>>sometimes go back to these from time to time just to remind myself, >> >>>>especially when I can't achieve what I want with an EQ; they've got >> >>>>good articles on compression and limiting too, and no doubt other FX >> >>>>that we use. >> >>>> >> >>>>Mark >> >>>> >> >>>>On 12/07/2010, Chris Belle <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>>> > Using a high pass filter to cut out inaudible frequencies and then >> >>>> > boosting the useable ones with a shelf >> >>>> > is an excellent way to thump the house with kick-ass bass without >> >>>> > eating up all the headroom in your mix. >> >>>> > >> >>>> > A good multi-band compressor and maybe a harmonic re-enforcement >> >>>> > can >> >>>> > do the rest. >> >>>> > >> >>>> > For for most music I do, >> >>>> > I don't need that much low end bass, it's not abou the fundamental >> >>>> > frequencies but the harmonics anyway, >> >>>> > even high end decent monitor speakers don't generally rate down >> >>>> to 20 hertz, >> >>>> > because you just don't have that much useable stuf down there. >> >>>> > >> >>>> > >> >>>> > At 04:47 PM 7/11/2010, you wrote: >> >>>> >>Having played about with EQ a fair bit within sonar on my >> >>>> >> half-decent >> >>>> >>Alesis prolinear monitors, and even with my less than perfect >> >>>> >> hearing >> >>>> >>these days, I can hear down to about 20 HZ, but as said, once down >> >>>> >>any further than that its more a question of 'feeling' the >> >>>> >> vibrations >> >>>> >>rather than 'hearing' them. >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >>Actually it quickly becomes easier to hear the doors and various >> >>>> >>instruments in my room start vibrating once you go down below 20 HZ >> >>>> >> or >> >>>> >>thereabouts. >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >>I often tend to put a filter on to take out most frequencies below >> >>>> >>about 27 HZ as they take up a lot of headroom in the mix, and >> >>>> >> seeing >> >>>> >>as how most people can't hear the frequencies down there (either >> >>>> >>because of their hearing, or as is more often the case, because of >> >>>> >>poor speakers they're using.), your not really cutting anything out >> >>>> >> of >> >>>> >>the mix. >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >>Mark >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >>On 11/07/2010, Drew <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>>> >> > k=killo. killo=a thousand. A thousand=1k! >> >>>> >> > The human ear can only hear as low as 20HZ; below that you >> >>>> start getting >> >>>> >> > into the fundamental molecular bonds and it's more a vibration >> >>>> >> > than >> >>>> >> > a >> >>>> >> > sound; rather dangerous ones at those levels, actually. >> >>>> >> > On 7/11/2010 1:08 PM, Blake Hardin wrote: >> >>>> >> >> Hi all, been going through the golden ears program and i >> >>>> was wondering >> >>>> >> >> is there a reason why he goes from 31 hz, 63 hz, 125 hz, 250 >> >>>> >> >> hz, >> >>>> >> >> 500 >> >>>> >> >> hz, 1 KHZ, 2 KHZ, 4 KHZ and so on? What i mean is there an >> >>>> order of hz >> >>>> >> >> and khz that needs to be memorized so to speak? And is there >> >>>> >> >> any >> >>>> >> >> reason why he is just doubling the numbers? What is the >> >>>> lowest HZ that >> >>>> >> >> you can go down to that a sub will pick up? The lowest i have >> >>>> >> >> seen >> >>>> >> >> is >> >>>> >> >> i believe 27 hz or maybe 31 hz. Is there not a 1 HZ? or a 10 >> >>>> >> >> HZ? >> >>>> >> >> lol >> >>>> >> >> Im guessing you cant go down that low? Thanks. >> >>>> >> >> >> >>>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >>>> >> >> Find JSonar and Sonar FAQs, articles, guides and downloads at >> >>>> >> >> jsonar.org. >> >>>> >> >> >> >>>> >> >> Jsonar mailing list >> >>>> >> >> [email protected] >> >>>> >> >> http://jsonar.org/mailman/listinfo/jsonar_jsonar.org >> >>>> >> >> >> >>>> >> > >> >>>> >> > >> >>>> >> > _______________________________________________ >> >>>> >> > Find JSonar and Sonar FAQs, articles, guides and downloads at >> >>>> >> > jsonar.org. >> >>>> >> > >> >>>> >> > Jsonar mailing list >> >>>> >> > [email protected] >> >>>> >> > http://jsonar.org/mailman/listinfo/jsonar_jsonar.org >> >>>> >> > >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >>-- >> >>>> >>Mark Faben >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >>_______________________________________________ >> >>>> >>Find JSonar and Sonar FAQs, articles, guides and downloads at >> >>>> >> jsonar.org. >> >>>> >> >> >>>> >>Jsonar mailing list >> >>>> >>[email protected] >> >>>> >>http://jsonar.org/mailman/listinfo/jsonar_jsonar.org >> >>>> > >> >>>> > >> >>>> > >> >>>> > >> >>>> > WARNING!!! >> >>>> > >> >>>> > This email could contain innocent phrases which, if taken out of >> >>>> > context, or read from an existing inclination to be hostile, or an >> >>>> > overly politically correct world view could induce cursing, abusive >> >>>> > language, or other indications of less than desirable behavior in a >> >>>> > public venue. >> >>>> > No ill will is intended. >> >>>> > The sender takes no responsibility for mis-interpretation or >> >>>> > otherwise extrapolated extended meaning, intent, or purposes >> >>>> > implied >> >>>> > or imagined from said phrases. >> >>>> > The receiver of any such email containing such phrases is solely >> >>>> > responsible for good >> >>>> > interpretation and intelligent deployment of subsequent responses >> >>>> > to >> >>>> > the above communication. >> >>>> > >> >>>> > >> >>>> > _______________________________________________ >> >>>> > Find JSonar and Sonar FAQs, articles, guides and downloads at >> >>>> > jsonar.org. >> >>>> > >> >>>> > Jsonar mailing list >> >>>> > [email protected] >> >>>> > http://jsonar.org/mailman/listinfo/jsonar_jsonar.org >> >>>> > >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>>-- >> >>>>Mark Faben >> >>>> >> >>>>_______________________________________________ >> >>>>Find JSonar and Sonar FAQs, articles, guides and downloads at >> >>>> jsonar.org. >> >>>> >> >>>>Jsonar mailing list >> >>>>[email protected] >> >>>>http://jsonar.org/mailman/listinfo/jsonar_jsonar.org >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> WARNING!!! >> >>> >> >>>This email could contain innocent phrases which, if taken out of >> >>>context, or read from an existing inclination to be hostile, or an >> >>>overly politically correct world view could induce cursing, abusive >> >>>language, or other indications of less than desirable behavior in a >> >>>public venue. >> >>>No ill will is intended. >> >>>The sender takes no responsibility for mis-interpretation or >> >>>otherwise extrapolated extended meaning, intent, or purposes >> >>>implied or imagined from said phrases. >> >>>The receiver of any such email containing such phrases is solely >> >>>responsible for good >> >>>interpretation and intelligent deployment of subsequent responses >> >>>to the above communication. >> >>> >> >>> >> >>>_______________________________________________ >> >>>Find JSonar and Sonar FAQs, articles, guides and downloads at >> >>> jsonar.org. >> >>> >> >>>Jsonar mailing list >> >>>[email protected] >> >>>http://jsonar.org/mailman/listinfo/jsonar_jsonar.org >> >> >> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >> >>Find JSonar and Sonar FAQs, articles, guides and downloads at >> >> jsonar.org. >> >> >> >>Jsonar mailing list >> >>[email protected] >> >>http://jsonar.org/mailman/listinfo/jsonar_jsonar.org >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > WARNING!!! >> > >> > This email could contain innocent phrases which, if taken out of >> > context, or read from an existing inclination to be hostile, or an >> > overly politically correct world view could induce cursing, abusive >> > language, or other indications of less than desirable behavior in a >> > public venue. >> > No ill will is intended. >> > The sender takes no responsibility for mis-interpretation or >> > otherwise extrapolated extended meaning, intent, or purposes implied >> > or imagined from said phrases. >> > The receiver of any such email containing such phrases is solely >> > responsible for good >> > interpretation and intelligent deployment of subsequent responses to >> > the above communication. >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Find JSonar and Sonar FAQs, articles, guides and downloads at >> > jsonar.org. >> > >> > Jsonar mailing list >> > [email protected] >> > http://jsonar.org/mailman/listinfo/jsonar_jsonar.org >> > >> >> >>-- >>Mark Faben >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Find JSonar and Sonar FAQs, articles, guides and downloads at jsonar.org. >> >>Jsonar mailing list >>[email protected] >>http://jsonar.org/mailman/listinfo/jsonar_jsonar.org > > > > > WARNING!!! > > This email could contain innocent phrases which, if taken out of > context, or read from an existing inclination to be hostile, or an > overly politically correct world view could induce cursing, abusive > language, or other indications of less than desirable behavior in a > public venue. > No ill will is intended. > The sender takes no responsibility for mis-interpretation or > otherwise extrapolated extended meaning, intent, or purposes implied > or imagined from said phrases. > The receiver of any such email containing such phrases is solely > responsible for good > interpretation and intelligent deployment of subsequent responses to > the above communication. > > > _______________________________________________ > Find JSonar and Sonar FAQs, articles, guides and downloads at jsonar.org. > > Jsonar mailing list > [email protected] > http://jsonar.org/mailman/listinfo/jsonar_jsonar.org > -- Mark Faben _______________________________________________ Find JSonar and Sonar FAQs, articles, guides and downloads at jsonar.org. Jsonar mailing list [email protected] http://jsonar.org/mailman/listinfo/jsonar_jsonar.org
