I think that you will switch to anything if you will not be
able to afford your current life style.
-----Original Message-----
From: A mailing list about Java Server Pages specification and reference
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Rick Jesse
Sent: Saturday, September 23, 2000 10:32 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: ASP vs JSP
One last thing on this... I've looked at ASP+ and COM+ in detail, and get
ready for a laugh if any of you do look into either. COM+ is a Java copy:
C# and VB are compiled into byte codes which run in the COM+ VM. COM+ even
has the same core class library layout the JDK has. (WFC which is the MS
equivalent of Swing, which was released with J++ a couple years ago, now
runs under COM+.) ASP+ is a JSP/Servlet copy: the architecture its based on
a *compiled* COM+ object that is bound to an HTML template -- can you say
Model 2 architecture? Anyway, who cares about this stuff -- even if they
release the source code why would anyone switch to using a proprietary copy
of Java?
-Rick
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ruta Thakkar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, September 22, 2000 2:38 PM
Subject: Re: ASP vs JSP
> Hi,
> Thanks a lot guys.
> The discussion has been very helpful.
> We have decided to go ahead with JSP. One of the reasons also being that
we
> already have some people with JSP expertise.
> We do have a tight schedule, but after considering our design, I think it
> wouldn't be a problem to get the portal over in time
>
> This was my first qeustion on the list and i am really thankful to
everyone
> for the prompt and valuable response.
>
> Regards
> Ruta
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Duffey, Kevin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Saturday, September 23, 2000 12:45 PM
> Subject: Re: ASP vs JSP
>
>
> > Well said. ;)
> >
> > I am not one sided..I wrote code with ActiveX, COM, and such for a
while.
> > But if you are true to your knowledge, anyone will admit that Java is
much
> > cleaner code than C/C++ (easier to read, easier to understand, easier to
> > write), and JSP/Servlets are far easier to understand than COM. Plus,
> while
> > in-process is possible with DLLs, you don't see the whole server going
> down
> > if a servlet craps out (not usually). COM was (and is) notorious (at
least
> > on the web side) for bringing down IIS if something goes wrong with the
> > component (memory overwrite, etc). I know this from experience..we had
> > nightmares when using this technology. Its much different with Java,
thats
> > for sure.
> >
> > Can you honestly say VBScript is easier to work with than Java scriplets
> in
> > the pages? I saw plenty of VBScript code and its much harder to
understand
> > (initially). Does VBScript allow you the full access to the Windows APIs
> in
> > an ASP page? I don't think so. JSP does allow you full access to the JDK
> > Apis, even though its not exactly best to put that in JSP pages.
> >
> > There are pros/cons to both technologies. I'll be the first to admit I
> > haven't read up on ASP+, so I can't say if that will be better. The 3rd
> > party tools for ASP aren't all there either..they work sometimes, but
not
> as
> > reliable as they are on the Windows platform. How many people are going
to
> > go the route of (as Rick said) a closed architecture proprietary setup
> when
> > J2EE is making such a huge impact on the industry. I have yet to see any
> > other implementation of ASP other than MS, and thats bad. Your stuck
with
> > whatever they choose.
> >
> > Anyways..nuff said. JSP is better! ;)
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Rick Jesse [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > > Sent: Friday, September 22, 2000 9:42 PM
> > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > Subject: Re: ASP vs JSP
> > >
> > >
> > > My reponse is, JSP is an open architecture, based on a
> > > published *SPEC* with
> > > many, many commerical and open source implementations. You
> > > can judge an
> > > implementation by determining spec compliance and going from there
> > > (performance, etc.).
> > >
> > > Where is the ASP or ASP+ spec? I'm not talking about
> > > documentation on how to
> > > use the stuff, but a spec that explains the design, the
> > > capabilities, and
> > > how its supposed to work in the abstract. (Any body ever seen
> > > the BNF for
> > > the VB language, or a spec on VB/ASP from MS???) How many platforms
> > > does/will ASP+ run on (How many platforms does VB run on?)?
> > > Will you have to
> > > use RAD tools to get the most out of it or can you use a text
> > > editor and
> > > command line and get the same level of capabilities if you
> > > wish? Will the
> > > runtime and design-time of ASP+ somehow be intertwined (in an
> > > unpublished
> > > way) so that MS tools will have the advantage over 3rd party
> > > tools for first
> > > 2 or 3 releases (how many 3rd part VB RAD tools do you know
> > > of)? When will
> > > the *SOURCE CODE* to ASP or ASP+ MS implemenation be
> > > available anytime soon?
> > > What open process is in place so that I, as an ISV, can make
> > > recommendations
> > > to ASP or ASP+?
> > >
> > > JSP may be rather primitive, but every developer -- not ones
> > > with special
> > > access because they've agreed to be MS partners, etc. -- can
> > > know how JSP is
> > > supposed to work and not be dependent on a single
> > > implementation. That's why
> > > everyone is using it. They have choices and options because
> > > its an OPEN
> > > architecture.
> > >
> > > There is a huge, huge, difference between Java and VB on the level of
> > > openness and architectural concientiousness. (Question: if I
> > > wanted to use a
> > > hash table in VB, does anyone know off hand what's available
> > > in MS VB? --
> > > get real!!!) Please do not equate them. Furthermore, ASP or
> > > ASP+ will never
> > > match up with JSP/Servlets because ASP and ASP+ inheriently closed and
> > > proprietary -- no spec, source code, or cross platform
> > > implemenation has
> > > ever been released for these MS technologies.
> > >
> > > Forget the MS stuff... I have not seen or heard of one
> > > serious, commerical
> > > web architecture in the last two years that has any MS
> > > product in the entire
> > > architecture. No one wants to be limited by a closed
> > > architecture. Let's put
> > > is this way, if your pissed with the bugs or performance of
> > > your NT based
> > > ASP implementation, what alternatives to you have?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Nasser Dassi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2000 8:06 PM
> > > Subject: Re: ASP vs JSP
> > >
> > >
> > > > Hi all,
> > > > I beg to differ on a few points mentioned between ASP and JSP.
> > > >
> > > > The transition is dependent on which scripting language
> > > someone is more
> > > > comfortable with (Java/JavaScript or Visual Basic)...
> > > that's a given. But
> > > > as far as usability, it entirely depends on the
> > > configuration you would
> > > like
> > > > to go with. Although ASP is Microsoft-specific (although that is no
> > > longer
> > > > true with advent of 3rd Party software packages aimed at Unix-based
> > > servers
> > > > to adopt ASP & PerlScript), ASP+ and all the new bells and
> > > whistles that
> > > > will become available along the MS platforms would
> > > quantitatively and
> > > > qualitatively match up with the JSP potentials (as far as
> > > what is being
> > > > produced today, not next year).
> > > >
> > > > In the end, they are equal: ASP+ allows an entire OS to
> > > be your web
> > > > application... JSP, too, brings a Unix or Java-based OS to
> > > become your web
> > > > application, too. To either, snap on an XML-based
> > > database, and if your
> > > > code is created with attention and possibility of
> > > expansion, then it, too,
> > > > will become platform independent (as ASP applications can
> > > be ported... and
> > > > JSP applications can be moved).
> > > >
> > > > Important to point out: Although security is 'serious'
> > > with Microsoft,
> > > it
> > > > must be noted that it is still proprietary... which means
> > > experts must
> > > > decode the code......... for Open Source platforms and
> > > applications, the
> > > > code is already decoded -- it just becomes a matter of
> > > placing a sign over
> > > > the open doors, or making a door and recompiling the kernel.
> > > >
> > > > Ultimately, being an eCommerce VB/ASP developer for 7
> > > years, and an
> > > > eCommerce Java/JSP developer for over a year, I found my
> > > transition quite
> > > > straightforward.
> > > >
> > > > Final Point: If your application is properly programmed
> > > (designed), it
> > > > wouldn't matter whether it's created with ASP or JSP. Wait
> > > until ASP+ has
> > > > been fully released before delving into it... if you cannot
> > > wait, begin
> > > with
> > > > the language you are more comfortable with (ASP or JSP).
> > > >
> > > > Yours Truly,
> > > > Nasser
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Duffey, Kevin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > > Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2000 8:17 PM
> > > > Subject: Re: ASP vs JSP
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > I would be to differ. JSP is much easier to use than ASP
> > > if you know
> > > Java.
> > > > > If your more a Windows/Visual Basic person than ASP will
> > > be easier. I
> > > find
> > > > > JSP much easier to work with and offers a lot more than
> > > ASP does in the
> > > > way
> > > > > of functionality. You get the full JDK available (if you
> > > want), as well
> > > as
> > > > > the power of using it on any platform (as you said) which
> > > can ultimately
> > > > > give you much more powerful servers, thus increase performance,
> > > > reliability,
> > > > > and scalability. COM is inherently more complex to work with than
> > > > JavaBeans
> > > > > and EJB, although EJB isn't a piece of cake either. Even
> > > is ASP+ is
> > > > compiled
> > > > > into some format, its still tied to Windows, while your
> > > JSP code can
> > > move
> > > > > not only to any platform, but to any app server that
> > > implements J2EE on
> > > > that
> > > > > platform. So now you are free to choose the platform AND
> > > the software to
> > > > run
> > > > > your code with. Plus, I am quite sure Java/EJB is, or
> > > will soon have
> > > much
> > > > > more support for enterprise development than
> > > MTS/ASP/COM/DCOM. There is
> > > a
> > > > > reason Java is now the #1 sought after development
> > > language and a large
> > > > > number of companies are flocking to J2EE. J2EE is made up
> > > of many big
> > > > > companies (and many small ones), while MTS/ASP and all
> > > that jazz is
> > > > strictly
> > > > > MS. This is one place I think MS wont come close on. They
> > > have lost this
> > > > war
> > > > > of enterprise solutions in my opinion. There are still a
> > > lot of people
> > > > that
> > > > > are solid MS and anti-java, but there are a lot more realizing the
> > > > potential
> > > > > for java based solutions.
> > > > ...
> > > >
> > > >
> > > ==============================================================
> > > =============
> > > > To unsubscribe: mailto [EMAIL PROTECTED] with body: "signoff
> > > JSP-INTEREST".
> > > > Some relevant FAQs on JSP/Servlets can be found at:
> > > >
> > > > http://java.sun.com/products/jsp/faq.html
> > > > http://www.esperanto.org.nz/jsp/jspfaq.html
> > > > http://www.jguru.com/jguru/faq/faqpage.jsp?name=JSP
> > > > http://www.jguru.com/jguru/faq/faqpage.jsp?name=Servlets
> > >
> > > ==============================================================
> > > =============
> > > To unsubscribe: mailto [EMAIL PROTECTED] with body:
> > > "signoff JSP-INTEREST".
> > > Some relevant FAQs on JSP/Servlets can be found at:
> > >
> > > http://java.sun.com/products/jsp/faq.html
> > > http://www.esperanto.org.nz/jsp/jspfaq.html
> > > http://www.jguru.com/jguru/faq/faqpage.jsp?name=JSP
> > > http://www.jguru.com/jguru/faq/faqpage.jsp?name=Servlets
> > >
> >
> >
>
===========================================================================
> > To unsubscribe: mailto [EMAIL PROTECTED] with body: "signoff
> JSP-INTEREST".
> > Some relevant FAQs on JSP/Servlets can be found at:
> >
> > http://java.sun.com/products/jsp/faq.html
> > http://www.esperanto.org.nz/jsp/jspfaq.html
> > http://www.jguru.com/jguru/faq/faqpage.jsp?name=JSP
> > http://www.jguru.com/jguru/faq/faqpage.jsp?name=Servlets
>
>
===========================================================================
> To unsubscribe: mailto [EMAIL PROTECTED] with body: "signoff
JSP-INTEREST".
> Some relevant FAQs on JSP/Servlets can be found at:
>
> http://java.sun.com/products/jsp/faq.html
> http://www.esperanto.org.nz/jsp/jspfaq.html
> http://www.jguru.com/jguru/faq/faqpage.jsp?name=JSP
> http://www.jguru.com/jguru/faq/faqpage.jsp?name=Servlets
===========================================================================
To unsubscribe: mailto [EMAIL PROTECTED] with body: "signoff
JSP-INTEREST".
Some relevant FAQs on JSP/Servlets can be found at:
http://java.sun.com/products/jsp/faq.html
http://www.esperanto.org.nz/jsp/jspfaq.html
http://www.jguru.com/jguru/faq/faqpage.jsp?name=JSP
http://www.jguru.com/jguru/faq/faqpage.jsp?name=Servlets
===========================================================================
To unsubscribe: mailto [EMAIL PROTECTED] with body: "signoff JSP-INTEREST".
Some relevant FAQs on JSP/Servlets can be found at:
http://java.sun.com/products/jsp/faq.html
http://www.esperanto.org.nz/jsp/jspfaq.html
http://www.jguru.com/jguru/faq/faqpage.jsp?name=JSP
http://www.jguru.com/jguru/faq/faqpage.jsp?name=Servlets
