Going along with what Chad said (and sorry for top posting, but I
don't really understand that argument either) I'll take simple any
day. Though I've seen the value of Spring in stuff like ServiceMix, I
think Spring really shines in things like Grails. So, if I were going
to build a webapp I'd choose a Ruby-based framework like Merb. ;-)
I've been working with Grails for the past month - to get away from a
from-scratch project that was dumped on my team by a previous
employee. I like Groovy a lot...but, Grails is rough.
In fact I'm using Spring and Spring-DM to host some OSGi bundles
(where I'm shoving business logic). Unfortunately Grails doesn't
accommodate much so I'm doing quite a bit of hacking.
I work for Accenture National Security Services (used to work at
Raytheon).
Kit
On Oct 21, 2008, at 4:37 PM, Thomas Hicks wrote:
At 04:08 PM 10/21/2008, you wrote:
Yeh, that was definitely chum for chums.
:)
Seriously though, my issues with Spring are more political/business
than technical. Spring can do a lot for you - from a web-app or
enterprisey-app angle. But, it comes with a lot of "fluff" too,
which
raises the learning curve - fair warning.
I'm sure there's a relative parallel between a DI framework and
IDEs -
but, tools are different than building blocks.
Sure, perhaps I should have said an "enabling technology". It
enables me to build a web application a lot easier, cleaner,
and faster than the manual way I used to do it, years ago.
The latest OSGi spin Spring is spinning is a little gross. Why do I
need to "buy" their 8x8 block when I can go down the street to Apache
and get a Felix 2x2 block? But, anyway...
Good point, I have not used the new version of Spring built on
top of the OSGi bundles....I agree that the jury is still out on
how much this really helps or hurts. Of course, the reason that
SpringSource gives for using their OSGi bundles is that they
claim to have extended the system to overcome some of the
shortcomings in the OSGi design. For more on this claim, see:
http://blog.springsource.com/2008/04/29/web-applications-and-osgi/
http://blog.springsource.com/2008/05/08/springsource-application-platform-manifest-headers/
If I had a problem whose solution really needed dynamic modules
and module management, I would seriously consider NetKernel
or, perhaps, rethinking the system to use an ESB.
Luddite? If this were true I'd have said something like:
If you intentionally choose Java for any web application you
work...you need a re-education. Spring only facilitates web-app
development by convoluting what truly should be simple with XML
configuration.
The XML has not been a problem for my particular applications
in the past. But, the latest versions claim to be configurable
without XML; either by annotations or by programming
the configuration directly.
But, I didn't say that. Liz, do the diligence and don't buy into any
hype without thorough and complete investigation (which doesn't
include marketing sessions put on by self-centered organizations like
Spring Source).
Agreed, although, to date, the Spring conferences I have been
to have been highly technical and low on marketing. That may
have changed with the company's recent restructuring and
emphasis on making the venture capitalists happy.
BTW Kit - where do you work and what do you use to build
web apps?
cheers,
-tom
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