On 25 April 2014 22:12, Jos Poortvliet <jospoortvl...@gmail.com> wrote: > On Thursday 24 April 2014 23:23:28 Jaroslaw Staniek wrote: >> On 22 April 2014 11:31, Mario Fux <kde...@unormal.org> wrote: >> > Proposal: >> > Reduce the amount of KDE Core Apps according to a definition and release >> > the other apps in independent groups or suites like e.g. KDE Edu, KDE >> > Games, KDE PIM, Amarok or the Calligra Suite. >> > >> > Details: >> > We could decide on a group of KDE Core Apps (for the Desktop) based on a >> > definition like this: >> > - Allows you to manage your files and documents (e.g. => Dolphin, Ark, >> > K3b?) - Allows you to view documents and pictures (e.g. => Okular and >> > Gwenview) - Allows you to watch movies and listen to music (e.g. => >> > Dragon and Juk) - Allows you to administrate and manage your system (e.g. >> > => print-manager, ksane, systemsettings) >> > - Allows you to do this in an accessible way*: (e.g. => Simon, Jovie and >> > Co) - Allows you to write some notes and find them again (e.g. => >> > Kate/Kwrite) >> One note, I would not call Kate as core app. It rather belongs to a >> Specialized Apps group (with KDevelop, Konsole and... Kexi for >> example). Anyone unconvinced can look at, say, Kate's Tools menu :) >> >> So my idea could be to start from optics of basic user, discovering >> personas, their >> goals or needs, and then realistic groups would appear naturally. >> BTW, does even "Core Apps" sound fine for the basic user? > > Core Apps is horrible in any case, it should be something like the KDE > Essentials. [..]
I'd like to say thank you to everyone that shares personal opinion. Here's mine. (While reading this please note that geek power users isn't a primary audience for apps I am contributing to) - 1 - I am in contact with people (Joe Users specialized in a non-IT stuff, and also many power users) that believe that with Calligra they are pulling "the KDE" so they say, thank you for now. This is unfortunate perception, phenomena that perhaps would be further analyzed. I believe Combining releases only makes this tougher. Note, the same time, similar people have no problem with running apps that are technically foreign to their desktops. Now see this extreme example: I met brilliant Linux individuals that use Notepad+ with Wine for editing. They somehow perceive Notepad+ their favourite for some (historic?) reason. Somehow, Notepad+ is not dragging alien technology, and it's light enough. It's subtle, someone feel fre to analyze that so we can see what to improve. And I do not mean just feature comparison with Kate. I do not see benefits of the proposal from my perspective, as author of large KDE apps and promotor of Qt and Frameworks (in random order). We're not controlling the deployment process, distros do so, and distros already have their versioning, maybe grouping. While this has known advantages, this is a rare situation in the IT industry, nearly everyone else ships apps independent of the OS release. Maybe only builtin apps on mobile are similar in this? I am not fan of too superficial "groups" of apps. To be specific, I am encouraging to first conduct mother/gradma test by asking for a perceived meaning of things and trying to explain. Ask whether they really care, how they feel with the extra information. How they get the software. - 2 - >From another optics: if we take a modern task-orientation into account, and own model of Activities, we'll notice that many apps belong to many groups of tasks. Someone wants to paste a rich text table into a mail app (and can't) and write a long report containing data tables. For both needs Calligra Words can be explicitly or implicitly used. Moreover both can be essential for someone. Well, Blender and Krita can be essential for many. They put their icons on the panel thus making personal, essential selection. Maybe features can be categorized much better, single app can belong to many categories. I can truly bear with reaction of geeks when old-school/childish versioning/naming is kept and promoted. They'll survive by composing extra in their minds. Long ago MS asked "Where do you want to go today?" Perhaps at first contact we should ask the user, what do you want to do today? - 3 - At project management level please also note a word from a Calligra contributor. The project is so huge that there's even lack of manpower for maintaining change logs or feature guides. Even specification of essential file formats take thousands of pages combined. 400+ dialogs. 400 services/types/plugins. I don't think syncing with joint releases wouldn't add to the manpower. I would avoid anything that narrows contributor base and user base. Secondly, our choice of release schedule for Calligra is already result of a nontrivial compromise. It's complex even now while we do not have released our Frameworks to the public, something that in my opinion can be expected as our differentiator. -- regards / pozdrawiam, Jaroslaw Staniek Kexi & Calligra & KDE | http://calligra.org/kexi | http://kde.org Qt for Tizen | http://qt-project.org/wiki/Tizen Qt Certified Specialist | http://www.linkedin.com/in/jstaniek _______________________________________________ kde-community mailing list kde-community@kde.org https://mail.kde.org/mailman/listinfo/kde-community
