On 11/4/2015 9:01 PM, Stefano Rossi wrote: > Firstly I would like to point out I am not a kicad developer, but more > of an interested individual on KiCADs success. > > When I hear that UI refinement is not necessary. I cringe. It is devoid > of any logical thinking and consistency. Each and every one of the kicad > programs has its own way of doing things. I read that Wayne says it > isn't important to have "fancy" menus and shortcuts are better. That is > just making a program for your own use, an no one else. Look at Altium, > P-P or right click Place->Part. When I started, I already had experience > with Eagle, all that was necessary was to adjust to the Altium way. I > did everything as a newbie, menus. Once I got the hang of it, the > transition to the shortcuts is just natural.
I did not say that. I said "We can do both but I will not bow down to the usability gods who make it take longer to lay out a schematic and/or board (think gnome2 to gnome3 changes)." Did you not see the "We can do both part"? Please do not put words in my mouth. I do a good enough job of that myself. Pcbnew has a "Get and Place Footprint" context menu entry and a Place->Part main menu entry. The former finds an existing footprint and snaps it to the cursor. The second allows you to place a footprint that is not in the netlist on the board. Is this really that much different or am I missing something? Have you used a recent version pcbnew to lay out a pcb or are you using the old stable version? I never suggested that the kicad UI could not be improved. I'm fine with adding drag handles and other editing niceties to kicad up to point when I can no long just use a hot key to perform the same action. I will reject any UI commit that does not have a sane shortcut or breaks the existing shortcuts in the name of usability. That is all I am saying. I'm willing to bet there are a lot more people who agree with this than disagree with this. > > Watching EEVblogs first time experience with Kicad is just proof of it. > As an EE you want to use the tool based on previous experiences. With > kicad, one MUST have a manual explaining each and every step, and also > translating its lingo. Why the name changes to industry standards? (ie > Footprint=Module) Even on CERNs page there is talk about having a > cohesive UI. Where is module used in the latest kicad? We changed over from module to footprint a long time ago. If you see the work module used in any kicad UI string in the current release candidate, please let us know so we can fix it. > > Also, it isn't clear the goals. Are CERNs goals kicad goals? I have > learned that if you have no clear goals you will waste time in useless > features. Feature creep. Then the rest of the time is putting out fires > till someone branches out and starts from scratch. CERN's goals and KiCad's goals are aligned and we are in constant communication. It may not seem that way but they are. > > Lastly, I know that keeping it fun helps developers on the project, but > fun alone with no heading is just a crash coarse waiting to happen. The > easier to learn to use the program, the more users. That could bring > more developers, more interest. > > On Wed, Nov 4, 2015 at 5:08 PM, <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: > > Situation: As a KiCad newbie, I'm not satisfied with how some > functionalities > work, say, how the cooperation with the simulation engine works. > Having no information on development intentions of the current KiCad > development team, I end up by proposing a patch that tries to fix > the existing > KiCad functionality without much pain. > If I read the road map, I would see there: "Simulations: Provide quality > circuit simulation capabilities similar to commercial products - no > progress". > Now I have no idea what are the expectation from the "quality circuit > simulator", how should it look like. And thus I would give up at the > very > beginning. > > However, If I got a high-level design, I would get an idea how much > work it > will be, whether I have the expertise needed, and whether I am > interested in > the functionality as designed. I would compare my effort and gains, > whether it > would bring me a better functionality than the patch mentioned > above. And then > I could decide to try that, because at least I would know that if I > follow the > design, my contribution won't get rejected. > > I know this is sad, but the newbie cannot make the high-level design by > himself. It must be a long-time KiCad user or a long-time KiCad > developer. > > Martin. > > > ----- Původní zpráva ----- > Odesílatel: Javier Serrano <[email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>> > Příjemce: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > Datum: Wed, 4 Nov 2015 21:10:47 +0100 > Předmět: Re: [Kicad-developers] About collaboration, simulation, > documentation, organisation, usability and documentation > > > > On Wed, Nov 4, 2015 at 7:26 PM, <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> > wrote: > > >> We actually do have an idea where we are headed and a road map > > > > > > That's good, but they are still too vague for a newbie to learn what > exactly > > > needs to be done. > > > > As a newbie, what type of information would you expect to find, and how? > > > > Thanks, > > > > Javier > > > > > -- > > ______________________________________________________________________ > Vystup z řady a zřiď si taky originální email! @bigboss.cz > <http://bigboss.cz>, @dablik.cz <http://dablik.cz>, @potvurka.cz > <http://potvurka.cz>, @tajny.cz... zdarma na http://email.sms.cz > COMDOM Antispam - www.comdomsoft.com <http://www.comdomsoft.com> > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers > Post to : [email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]> > Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers > More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp > > > > > -- > <a href="http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Support_Wikipedia/en";><img > border="0" alt="Support Wikipedia" > src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d3/Fundraising_2009-square-share-en.png"; > /></a> > > > _______________________________________________ > Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers > Post to : [email protected] > Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers > More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp > _______________________________________________ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers Post to : [email protected] Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
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