By Dragan Bisenic Friday, March 23, 2001 Ha'aretz Magazine. Slobodan Milosevic, 60, president of the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia (FRY) until October 2000, says he does not even receive his salary although for almost 15 years, during a tumultuous time of national disintegration and civil war, he led Serbia and Yugoslavia. The International War Crimes Tribunal in The Hague sent out a circular demanding his arrest after the bombardment of Yugoslavia two years ago, placing the former leader at the top of its wanted list. The United States government has demanded his arrest by March 31, otherwise Yugoslavia will not get a dime of promised American aid.In this exclusive interview granted to Ha'aretz, Milosevic speaks about the possibility of being arrested and tried, about the present Yugoslav government, America's "private politics" in relation to him, and the motives that served as the basis for determining his policy - but also about his associates and friends who betrayed him once he was not in power. One could say that his greatest disappointment is in the people. Politically, he says, he has a feeling that "he came to Kosovo too late." He speaks calmly and cordially, without excitement, and as many had already told me, he makes and serves coffee by himself. What is the political climate in Yugoslavia at present. How would you characterize it? "The territorial integrity of Yugoslavia is in jeopardy. Separatism and terrorism on the part of the Albanians have been expanding since they were forcefully and rapidly transferred after October's developments. The aspirations of Albanian separatists and terrorists extend even past the territory of Kosovo to other areas of southern Serbia. Under such circumstances where it is possible for them to buy time, I really do not know where it will end for them. "I am afraid that other separatists will also appear with their terrorist faces and make a special demand for autonomous status for multinational areas of Serbia or even secession of those areas from Serbia. Montenegro can secede from Serbia, and there are movements in that respect both outside and inside Yugoslavia, but I'm afraid that Montenegro will be also faced with internal separatist tensions and demands for re-dividing its territory. "As far as economic and social conditions are concerned, they are bad because the standards of living are rapidly and drastically falling. I am of the opinion that this is unjustified: The economic situation even during times of sanctions was much better and now, taking into account that all sanctions have finally been lifted and all connections have been established with 'the world' again, there is less of a reason for such a thing to happen. "In the pre-election campaign, representatives of the present government promised prosperity. If and when they come to power, they said, they will have all embargoes lifted and a rapid, almost fantastic, recovery of the society will begin. Well, they have come to power. All embargoes were lifted. And there is no sign of a rapid recovery, especially not of a fantastic one, not even after half a year has elapsed. On the contrary. "And it will not come soon or at all if the government is not engaged in economic and other affairs that are vital to the life of citizenry, but is exclusively campaigning against representatives of former authorities, political opponents and leftists. Many enterprises, even those of vital importance for the life of the community, are not in operation. They are being prepared for cheap sale to foreign buyers or for being simply given away to them. "As far as the political situation is concerned, I think that the country is threatened by the establishment of a one-party system, as all parties other than the ruling one are subjected to a media lynch, seizure of material goods which they legally possess, and the promise of arrest day and night of their outstanding representatives. "Staged political processes are underway and quite a series of new ones are being announced. This leads society into an atmosphere of fear; people begin to be worried about their lives, their property and jobs. Media are exclusively in the hands of government, they are totally uniform, and there is no room in them for any opinion different from the official one, the ruling one. Of course, nothing has come about in regard to the promised democracy. "Everything is marked by violence, plummeting standards of living, political single-mindedness and territorial instability."Do you consider yourself a politician, statesman or revolutionary? "I always considered myself an ordinary man who was landed by historical circumstances, at a certain moment of his life, into a situation [in which it was necessary] to devote his whole life to his people who felt completely threatened." Beginning your political career as the leader of Serbia, did you have any political plan according to which you pursued your policies or adapted them to changing circumstances? "When I was elected president of Serbia in 1989, the Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia was still in existence. I was 47 years old at the time. Before that I spent the major part of my working life in economics and banking, and I believed that I could use my knowledge and experience in conceiving and accomplishing the economic development of Serbia in a modern and successful way. It is neither because of my own actions - nor Serbia's and not even Yugoslavia's, after all - that in the tumultuous events that befell eastern Europe in 1989 and 1990 in all countries of the region, dramatic political tensions, conflicts and changes happened that pushed economic, social, educational and cultural dimensions of life into the background, and reduced the life in those countries to party conflicts and struggles. Or pushed multinational states to ethnic, national and religious intolerance, as a result of which some of those countries disintegrated, and some continued to live in incessant and extreme tension caused between the majority population and the minorities. "Credit for the traumatic life of all those countries is due to the largest extent to the creators of the world order who expected to colonize those countries. However, those countries involved should not be freed from any liability for the fate that befell them. There were, nevertheless, many ways to withstand economic and social degradation, and especially political, national, religious and ethnic conflicts that were tearing their very existence apart. "Under such circumstances, in early 1990s, I was forced - in the struggle for the preservation of Yugoslavia and in support of the Serbian people outside Serbia, and as part of efforts to preserve the independence of Serbia itself - to defend the greatest values: homeland, people, freedom, independence, national dignity. "Simultaneously, we successfully maintained a parallel front of the fight for economic survival under conditions of war, sanctions and a large number of refugees, for nearly a decade. Our economic policy in such conditions yielded results about which no country in the area (and none of them had either wars or sanctions) could boast." Once you blamed your political opponents because "they were nowhere in sight when it was not clear how the struggle for preserving the integrity of Serbia would end." "My - as you say - 'political opponents,' or at least the majority of them, never took part in efforts undertaken by the government that I headed to protect the integrity of Serbia. Even when they were coming to me to discuss the matter and to reach a possible agreement together, they did not stick to the agreement and most frequently, after two or three days, blamed me in public for moves they had told me they would support when we spoke between ourselves." Were you aware of the political risks that you were running? "Naturally, where the responsibility is the biggest, the risk is the biggest. At the head of a country and a people that are exposed to very organized international pressures, that are the subject of attention of almost the entire world, the risk is the biggest. I took the risk into account. I was exposed to its consequences from the first day - as early as 1990. But I also counted on truth and justice. That is why I did not defend myself from slanders that were addressed against me. I trusted people. Maybe that was a mistake. My family, for instance, is of the opinion that it was a mistake, that I should not have passed over the slanders, not even one." Were the elections held in Yugoslavia on September 24, 2000 one of the risks? Some of your associates believe that you were erroneously advised to hold early presidential elections when you did not have to. "I would say that those who say now that I was mistakenly advised to hold presidential elections a year earlier are in fact those, or some of them, who supported such a proposal."Did you ever think that, after an image has been created about you in the world media because you did not accede to NATO requests, you would be accused by the Hague tribunal? "I counted on all dangers inherent in the decision that Serbia and Yugoslavia would not accept NATO's conditions. Indictment by the Hague tribunal is only one of the dangers to my life and the life of my family." Are you afraid of the Hague indictment and the American reward of $5 million [for Milosevic's capture]? What is your attitude to this? "Everybody who is at the head of an army which is defending itself from an external enemy has to count on the retaliation of that enemy, unless a peace treaty is concluded, as long as the enemy continues to have hostile intentions. His hostile intentions against the 'adversary of war' nurtures a situation in which the 'adversary' is not seen as the supreme commander any more. Then settling accounts with the former supreme commander is considered to be easier, especially if allies can be found among his political opponents in the country, and possibly among those who were until yesterday his collaborators in the defense of the country. "As for the reward, I think about it, I hope, the same as you do, the same as all normal people in the world. Setting a price on somebody's head is one of the most amoral forms of individual and collective behavior. And, rightfully so, one of the most hated words in the human language is 'blackmail.'" What was the role of big powers in the Balkans in the past 10 years? "The big powers had a common interest in destabilizing the Balkans in order to utilize it economically and to control it politically. In that respect it is illogical that all major Western countries found themselves involved in that story. Destabilization of the Balkans is also destabilization of Europe. Some politicians in the U.S. may have lost sight of the fact but not the politicians from Europe." You said in one of your interviews that the West used you as long as the stable Balkans were in their interest and discarded you when it opted for an unstable region. Did you have an inkling that you might be discarded? "You did not interpret the interview correctly. I did not say that the West used me but that the West and I enjoyed good cooperation while the peace in the Balkans suited the West. When the concept of the West had been changed, I, who continued to adhere to the concept of peace and stability in the Balkans, have been automatically proclaimed an adversary of the West." Formerly Yugoslavia had very close relations with NATO. As chief of the Yugoslav General Staff, Koca Popovic even promised in 1951 to [then U.S. president] Eisenhower that the Yugoslav army, despite being communist, would fight side by side with the "western," "capitalist" army against the Soviet Union. How do you view, from that perspective, NATO's attack on Yugoslavia and the role of NATO in the Yugoslav crisis in general? "By dismantling the Warsaw military alliance, NATO - which by that time was its antipode - remained alone. Its power has become unlimited, the world balance totally upset. That is why, maybe, member countries of NATO should have found their common policy in a political platform of cooperation with all, in assisting underdeveloped and small countries and nations. When it has remained the only one and has become powerful, NATO had a chance to put an end to all wars in the world." Why did you accept the Chernomirdin-Ahtisari agreement which stopped the NATO bombardment of Yugoslavia? "Because the agreement stipulated conditions of the end of war which contained guarantees of the United Nations with respect to the sovereignty and territorial integrity of Yugoslavia. It provided that UN representatives would come to Kosovo, for a limited period of time, to ensure peace and security for all citizens, so that the UN would help in reaching a political solution in the interest of all those who live in Kosovo and Metohia. "And that is why Chernomirdin, on behalf of Russia and on behalf of [then] president Yeltsin - before his whole delegation and before Russian generals, before our generals and before our whole delegation - guaranteed that Russia would not accept and that it would veto any attempt at introducing Chapter VII of the UN Charter." Is Kosovo, to your mind, lost to Serbia - or protected? "Kosovo is Serbia. It was and it will be. However, Kosovo is at the moment - owing to the fact that NATO usurped the role of the UN - under occupation. The same moment that foreign occupation ends in any way, the dream of Albanian terrorists will also end. Kosovo can be lost only if the politics ignoring national interests is pursued and if people's eyes are closed to the Albanian separatism and terrorism. It is, however, protected if the contrary political line is pursued - the one I am representing." Judging by many of your characteristics, one might say that you are an American-style man. You speak English, and even Richard Holbrook does not have any negative comments about you in his book. Many of your opponents and diplomats even have good things to say about you. Nevertheless, there was a conflict between you and the American administration of nearly inexplicable dimensions. Why such political animosity? "To be frank I also wondered about those animosities. But the answer is not a complicated one: [The cause] was not American politics. It was the personal politics of the top of the former administration. I sincerely hope that the new American administration will want, from the standpoint of its own interest and of the American national interest, to find out the real truth about the motives of the closeness of their predecessors with the Albania narco-Mafia, traffickers in white slaves, murderers and terrorists. "The American public should be especially embittered because it was, in connection with Serbia and the Serbian people, deceived, cheated by heaps of lies, by the greatest abuse of media ever recorded in the world to date. Anyhow, I had excellent cooperation with Americans. As a banker, I had many and successful contacts with them for many years. In the beginning of the crisis in eastern Europe and Yugoslavia, I also had in almost all meetings with representatives of the American administration good and hearty contacts. And even later, especially during the Dayton negotiations. Even after them. "I understand the American way of thinking and reacting, and people I talked to, almost all on the American side, in personal years-long contacts with me, respected very much my arguments, my explanations and my stance." Are you an anti-American? "No, I am not." What is your position toward Israel and toward Israel's attitude to Yugoslavia? "We always had a positive attitude toward the needs of the Israeli people to live in peace and to be free. But I must admit that, unfortunately, goodwill was not reciprocated on the part of Israel when it was hard for the Serbian people, when they were exposed to all kinds of pressures - from media and economic [pressures] to armed ones. Indeed, there were those who raised their voices against Albanian separatism. Mr. Sharon, for instance. But those were rare exceptions." During the NATO aggression against Yugoslavia you gave an interview to a Texas television station. The director of an American company conveyed to me that a number of congressmen and senators thought that your performance was very strong and persuasive. In the beginning of your political career, your appearance in the media made you superior to your political opponents. Why did you shun the media later on? "Because I thought that too much presence in the media was a sign of obtrusiveness, vanity, the need to stand out personally. As a man, I belong to modest people." Why did you give up your office after the events of October 5, 2000. Your opponents, e.g. Djindjic and Kostunica, say today that they expected to be arrested for setting the assembly and television station on fire. They say that they had a sleepless night between October 5th and 6th. Did you sleep, and why didn't you order their arrest? "I did not have them arrested because I was a dictator." When you were told by Kostunica that the Official Gazette had published that he was the winner [of the elections last October], did you say: "All right, if it was published in the Official Gazette, then I accept it." Did you make the decision only then or were you already fed up with everything? "I decided the moment Vojislav Kostunica conveyed me the message." When it became quite clear that you were not the president of Yugoslavia anymore, how did you feel when some people who were close to you, who you perhaps considered to be friends and who more or less owed their positions to you, deserted you? "I realized that the time spent with them as associates and friends was the time spent with egoists, toadies and cowards." When you look back on your [life in] politics, can you say where you succeeded and where you did not? "I succeeded in my decision and efforts to devote myself to the interests of my people and all citizens of the Republic of Serbia. I did not manage in my work, however, to distinguish between advisers, associates and friends, and 'careerists' and profiteers. But, I guess, I am not the first president to whom such a thing happened. My mistake is that I ignored previous experiences. I thought most probably that others had learned the lesson from previous experiences. I was prone on account of that to be mistaken in thinking that sincerity, help and goodwill are returned in the same way." These days journalists from all over the world are gathering in Belgrade, expecting your detention and arrest. How do you feel about those pressures? Once you said in an interview that "you had a clear conscience" in regard to the trials. "As for the gathering of journalists from all over the world to watch anybody's 'detention and arrest,' I view that as remnants of the need for gladiatorial combat ... I experience pressures as does any other man who is exposed to them or who is threatened by violence. "As regards clear conscience, clear conscience is, anyway, invoked by someone who bears responsibility in a negative sense for certain decisions, events, moves, behavior. Being at the head of Serbia, and then of Yugoslavia, I think that I did my best to defend my people and that I did not make any move detrimental to the interests of the country, people and citizens. On the contrary. "Under the historical circumstances experienced in this part of the world and [in the case of] the genocide against Serbs, in particular, I consider that I acted in the best way that one could, and positively in the best way that I for one could. I enjoyed great support of the people and the public. I also had a lot of critics and adversaries. However, I will certainly have fewer adversaries and, perhaps, fewer critics in the future, in history. Anyhow, we'll see." How do you view the detentions and arrests of former high officials of government services and institutions, and the fact that you were connected with the Ibar highway event and the murder of Slavko Curuvija? "I see the arrests you are referring to as staged political processes where patriots who defended the country have to be proclaimed worthy of blame and found guilty." What are your predictions in regard to the political future of Serbia and Yugoslavia? "Optimistic, should the politics in Serbia and Yugoslavia be pursued in the interest of independence of the country, its territorial integrity and state sovereignty. If it is based on the experiences and achievements of modern economics, while respecting the national past, and [is based] on the knowledge and application of all scientific, technological and cultural developments in the contemporary world and on development of the feeling of belonging to the world community, on principles of equality and common interests. Pessimistic, if an opposite form of politics is pursued. I hope that this was both brief and clear." Milosevic: Life and times l Born: August 29, 1941 in Pozarevac, Serbia l Education: Law degree, University of Belgrade, 1964 l Military service: None l Family status: Married to Mirjana Markovic, Ph.D.; one daughter, Marija, and one son, Marko l Religion: Serbian Orthodox l Professional life: Executive officer and, eventually, chief of state-owned gas company, Technogas, 1968-78; member, board of directors, Beobank (United Bank of Belgrade), 1978-82 l Political career: Joined Communist Party, 1959; named leader of Belgrade Communist Party, 1984; leader of Serbian Communist Party, 1987; elected president of Serbian republic, 1989; elected president of the new Federal Republic of Yugoslavia in July, 1997 by a secret ballot during the Joint Session of the Chamber of the Republics and the Chamber of Citizens of the Federal Assembly; lost bid for reelection as president in September 2000 l Wartime activities: As leader of the Serbian Communist Party in 1987, Milosevic challenged the Yugoslav federal government and championed Serbian control of the autonomous provinces of Kosovo and Vojvodina. In 1989, as president of Serbia, he revoked Kosovo's autonomous status. He resisted political and economic reform, challenging multiparty elections and moderate federalist policies. His actions increased tensions, which led to the breakup of the Yugoslav Republic. His opposition to confederation led to Croatian and Slovenian declarations of independence in 1991, and secession of the Croats and Muslims in Bosnia-Herzegovina in 1992. Milosevic backed Serbian rebels throughout the ensuing three-year civil war; his role in igniting bloody conflicts in Bosnia and Croatia earned him the nickname "Butcher of the Balkans." Suffering economic crises and sanctions, he signed a peace agreement in 1995, ending the war in Bosnia. He became president of the new Federal Republic of Yugoslavia, consisting of Serbia and Montenegro, in 1997. Ethnic violence and unrest continued in the predominantly Albanian province of Kosovo, as a period of nonviolent civil disobedience against Serbian rule gave way to the rise of a guerrilla army. In March 1999, following mounting repression of ethnic Albanians and the breakdown of negotiations between separatists and the Serbs, NATO began bombing military targets throughout Yugoslavia, and thousands of ethnic Albanians were forcibly deported from Kosovo. In May of that year, a UN-sponsored war crimes tribunal in The Hague issued a warrant for Milosevic's arrest for atrocities committed in Kosovo; the following month, after his withdrawal from Kosovo, NATO peacekeepers entered the region. Demonstrations in the latter half of 1999 against him failed to force Milosevic's resignation. Meanwhile, Montenegro sought increased autonomy within the federation and began making moves toward that goal. He called for early presidential elections and was defeated in September 2000 by Vojislav Kostunica, yet only conceded defeat several weeks later. The U.S. has demanded that by the end of this month, Milosevic be extradited to stand trial in The Hague. The government of Yugoslavia is expected not to agree to extradition, for which it may pay the price of new American sanctions and other punitive measures. ------------------------------------------- Macdonald Stainsby Rad-Green List: Radical anti-capitalist environmental discussion. http://lists.wwpublish.com/mailman/listinfo/rad-green ---- Leninist-International: Building bridges in the tradition of V.I. Lenin. http://lists.wwpublish.com/mailman/listinfo/leninist-international ---- In the contradiction lies the hope. --Bertholt Brecht _______________________________________________ Leninist-International mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] To change your options or unsubscribe go to: http://lists.wwpublish.com/mailman/listinfo/leninist-international
