On Nov 26, 2007 12:42 AM, Randall Shimizu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Bob La Quey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: Main Discussion List for KPLUG <[email protected]> > > Sent: Monday, November 26, 2007 12:08:45 AM > Subject: Re: China has the largest (DoS) Denial of service capability....! > > On Nov 25, 2007 9:54 PM, Randall Shimizu > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > > From: Paul G. Allen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: Main Discussion List for KPLUG <[email protected]> > > Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2007 8:12:31 PM > > Subject: Re: China has the largest (DoS) Denial of service > capability....! > > > > > > > > Andrew Lentvorski wrote: > > > > > > > > Compared to the zillions of zombified Windows machines, I doubt > China is > > > that impressive. > > > > Maybe China is counting on all those Windows machines. > > Only an idiot would not. I do not think the Chinese are idiots. > > > > In addition, all of China's traffic gets throttled through a small > > > number of optic links, IIRC. > > > > > > Simply pulling the plug on those links stops anything China wants > to > > do. > > > > Easier said than done. Not to mention, once an attack has started, > > pulling the plug after the fact could do nothing to solve stop it See > > below.) > > Yep. The corollary is that China's widely heralded firewall is leaky > as hell. All those factory managers and the colonels that "controll" > them in South China want ther porn. They have a gazillion ways to get > net from the world. I do not expect the Chinese firewall to work any > better than the Great Wall did. See > > Far from it being unbreachable, Chinese emperors relied on the wall > only as a last resort to fend off their enemies. (The Ming dynasty, > for instance, found it useless against the victorious Manchus, who > merely bribed the gatekeepers to let them in.) > http://www.amazon.com/Great-Wall-China-Against-World/dp/0802118143 > > When one has Sex versus Facism I will bet on Sex. And bribery, its > constant companion. > > > > This is not true for the zombies that already exist in our own > > country. > > > > How many of those zombies are (or can be) controlled by the Chinese? > > How would we know one way or another? What would it take for the > > Chinese to set the zombies off? > > > > > > > > Yes, China has cyber-warfare as one of its goals--*as does our > > military*. > > > > >> China's military is probably ahead, but it's hard to tell how > their hacking skills compare with the skills that exist in the US today. I > can certainly see however that a organized force could be more > effective. > > > > China is a lot farther along than we are. > > Would you care to support that statement? Even a few > factual references of almost any kind would be appreciated. > > I do _not_ consider PGA's assertions facts. > > > > And, if our military *doesn't* have cyber-warfare as one of its > > goals, > > > then our military is pathetically stupid. > > > > > > One problem is that that military's cyber warfare is not > coordinated > > > among the Navy, Army and Air Force. It's hard to see why the > military > > > is still using Windows on their critical systems. The militiary > however > > > is putting a lot of effort into securing their systems. The > military > > > has a set of guides called the STIG's (standard implementation > guidelines). > > > >>> The US military's advantage is experience. The US military has decades of > >>> computing experience. China's advantage is that they are highly focused > >>> on cyber warfare and so are we. So therefore the degree of focus and > >>> resource allocation is the key. One study noted that China is will align > >>> all it's resources when it wants to achieve a goal. The other factor is > >>> number of new engineers it can throw at cyber warfare.
Yeh. I can believe that they can throw a _lot_ of very intelligent young people at the problem. I would not be surprised if they could out man us by 5 or 10 to one. I also suspect that imagination, primarily a province of the young (i.e. the Chinese), is more important than experience in the game of cyberwarfare. We have a sterotype of the unimaginative Chinese student. I suspect the sterotype is false. The Chinese are a very difficult enemy. So maybe the best strategy is to make them an ally. For instance, they have a _lot_ of their wealth tied up in US debt instruments. They have _lot_ to lose by _defeating_ us, including their largest external market. Then there is Russia. No love lost between the Chinese and Russia. There are some obvious win/win scenarios. But this takes far more political will (and imagination) than we have seen exercised in either capital in decades. BobLQ -- [email protected] http://www.kernel-panic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/kplug-list
