Comments in line and following. On Wed, Mar 19, 2008 at 5:38 PM, Andrew Lentvorski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Legatus wrote: > > And of course we all use biological evolutionary theory so often, that > we > > couldn't survive in the modern world if neither idea were taught. I hate > > that debate, it never changes, and no is the better for it. We will all > know > > when we die. On point though, the vast majority of people don't need to > know > > anything about biology, beyond which hole the stick goes in to make > babies, > > and food and water is good for you ( yes I know, over simplified ). > > Reading, writing, math ( good stuff that trains some logical thinking ), > the > > scientific method, and simple finance. The rest can be built on that > solid > > foundation. > > Well, we all use Shakespeare so often in the modern world that we > couldn't survive in the modern world if it weren't taught. Yes, but the ability to read a broad range of fiction and non-fiction is immeasurably valuable. So if not Shakespeare, then some other old dead guy. Language changes, so the ability to read and understand language years after it was written is of value. > > Well, we all use algebra so often in the modern world that we couldn't > survive in the modern world if it weren't taught. I don't know about the rest of you, but I use algebra a lot. I may not call it algebra, but I use it. Required math beyond algebra and geometry may not be useful to everyone, but I have a hard time viewing algebra as something not used. > > > And, we don't really need reading past a fifth grade level, so we could > dispense with that. Right? Reading well is a skill necessary to learn more. I don't accept this argument. Few successful ( in the broadest sense, not just vocationally ) people aren't strong at reading. Though vocationally, what I read goes far beyond that of a fifth grader's reading level. > > > And these computer-thingies, didn't need them in the last 100 years, why > start now? > As we continue absurdity, you can't survive well without computers in the modern world. I hardly call the crap my kids get taught in computer classes useful beyond being a good administrative assistant ( if thats your goal, then this is fine ) anyway. I am actually an advocate of removing most of the computer classes from the schools. I think they are a distraction from learning critical thinking skills. Use computers as a part of instruction, and the child will naturally learn to use the computer. Teach the kid computer skills, and they learn very little. Most teachers have fairly weak computer skills. It is not a core competency of their work. Its a bit like going to your local computer geek for public speaking skills ( yes some are very good speakers, but being a computer geek didn't make that so ). > > School is not supposed to merely be vocational training in spite of what > the corporations would have you believe. > I never suggested that schools should be vocational training. I think that is best learned as you enter your chosen vocation in most cases. When I was working to become an EMT, I didn't learn to be an EMT in my classes, I learned by working next to an EMT or Paramedic. I learned to be a program/code in classes, and learned to be a developer working with developers. I learned how operating systems work from books and teachers, and learned to be a system administrator by working with system administrators. I don't think that excluding all teaching of the origins of man from public schools suddenly makes public schools vocational schools. Biological science can be taught at the competency levels of just about any high school student without ever broaching that subject, and thus avoid any of the controversy. Natural selection, and selective breeding can be taught without ever touching the controversy. Hybrid plants, and the definition of species can be taught without ever touching the controversy. Biological relationships and anatomical similarities can all be taught without ever teaching about the origin of man. Which in turn respects religions like Christianity's, Judaism's, and Islam's belief in a creator. The most important things I learned in high school science classes was not the specific contents of the classes, but the application of the scientific method, and how to develop a logical plan to test ideas to find answers or resolutions, and how to apply real logic to my thinking, rather than common sense. -- [email protected] http://www.kernel-panic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/kplug-list
