AMSOIL 10W-40, of course, Virg. Note signature line ; ) On Mon, 26 Jun 2006 12:53:42 -0500 "countryhomeprint" <countryhomepr...@bellsouth.net> writes: > My 2180 Volkswagen now has 23 hours on it since rebuild and first > flight. I > have been using a 30 weight oil. When the 25 hour inspection and > oilchange > comes about, what weight multi-grade oil do you recommend. All of my > > temperatures stay well within the recommended limits. > > Bill Page > boliverp...@bellsouth.net > N880AB > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <beverlyrai...@bellsouth.net> > To: "KRnet" <kr...@mylist.net> > Sent: Sunday, June 25, 2006 11:15 AM > Subject: Re: Re: KR> oils and stuff > > > > Hello Phil > > Thanks for the email and tell Ron I appreciate the time it took > him to > > reply, and the length of his explanation. He is busy running a > business > > so I know he made some sacrifice, even if it means sleep! LOL > > > > I will agree that all oils have improved over the years, they > would have > > to. It would be stupid to not include advances in straight weights > found > > in multi's. And some of Rons points about the merits of single > visc oils > > I also agree with. I believe all engines should be broken in on > single > > visc oils. The multi's do have too many additives that can end up > burnt or > > not providing enough cushion lube to closely machined parts. We > are also > > making some broad statements, because Oil Companies are known for > changing > > oil and fuels to suit different climates AND different markets. > > > > The early 70's engines and late 60's engines are probably the best > know > > around the world. Most other engines are measured against these > engines. > > However, they are two full generations back from today's advanced > engines. > > Those engines were kept at 160 to 165 degrees because water pump, > > > radiator, coolant, and oil technology could not keep them cool if > they ran > > hotter. This has a negative effect on fuel atomization and > combustion > > chamber efficiency. Here we need things to be the hottest it can > be > > without causing the fuel to flash ignite or become complete vapor > prior to > > entering the chamber itself. > > > > Late 90's and engines of the 2000's are designed to attempt to > maximize > > these parameters. They have thermostats that do not open until 195 > degrees > > and are fully open between 205 and 210F. Then system hovers the > temp > > between 205 and 220 relying on thermostat, and the coolant > properties and > > pressure to prevent the coolant from boiling over. These modern > multi > > oils also need over 140 degrees before they even begin to activate > the > > additives within them. An engine maintained at or near 160 will > never be > > able to benefit from a multi oil and will in fact do damage. > However, this > > engine will also have a short life due to this low temp, as > engineers of > > late have found, due to the fact that the metal is "cold" too much > of the > > time effecting everything from the fuel atomization to the > strength of the > > crank. Mixtures will have to be richer, which causes more cylinder > wash, > > shortens any oil's life. The crank is weaker possibly as much as > by half, > > due to the fact that areas not flexing are around engine temp, > while areas > > flexing and working are going up in temp, with a more brittle > metal. I > > have always been told by those that know that metals break faster > in the > > winter than summer. > > > > A quick check of the temp ranges of operation for single vs multi > will > > reveal that there is no way a single visc oil can run well in a > modern > > engine because it cannot adapt from 0 degrees in winter to > operation > > internally of 250 degrees, and then switch to temps of 70 degrees > to 130 > > degrees outside driving underhood temps to 400 degrees and > internal temps > > back up to 250 degrees. And all this with an engine that is > designed to > > begin driving after only a warmup of 30 seconds. > > > > Single visc oils can be used regularly if temps are paid attention > to and > > the weight adjusted accordingly. Most people do not go to the > trouble > > hence the need to develop oils that adjust for you. My fear is > that since > > alot of our readers do not know, they will not know the difference > and > > that could cause an engine failure. I agree that lack of such > know how > > should be a screening tool for not allowing these people into the > air, but > > somehow they make it up there any how. More and more builders are > using > > engine combinations with modern settings, clearances and metals > and need > > these multi's to survive. A case in point is the use of the Geo > Metro 3 > > and 4 cylinder engines. These engines MUST use the thinner 10w30 > or 5w30 > > oils or their valve train will fail very soon after they are put > into use, > > causing catastrophic failure. Their oil return holes in the heads > do not > > provide a large enough orifice to allow a thicker oil to > circulate, common > > among most all of the overhead cam engines. Depending on the > version of > > the vortec engine they may also have to use a multi oil to be > properly > > maintained. Single weight oils tend to be correct for too narrow > of the > > temp range, making the possible extremes go outside their design > range and > > begin breakdown. > > > > Especially in cases of engine sitting and getting part time use > the > > multi's are particularly necessary due to the fact that when the > oil was > > added it may have been summer but now is winter and a single visc > will not > > be able to handle the range of temps and may not pump initially > when > > started. Multi's will thin due to additives and circulate > immediately. > > Even looking at the popular Corvair motor, the temps it will > operate in is > > outside air maybe 60 degrees and then will be working hard > climbing and > > soaring to head temps of over 300 degrees. Single visc oils cannt > adjust > > for this wide variation in temps, so either you have one that > handles the > > low temp part, or the high temp, but not both. If singles could do > this, > > there would be no need for the multi's any more. If VW's are > supposed to > > operate similar to the Corvair, then you can see a single used > after > > breakin will sacrifice durability and longevity. > > > > Colin > > N96TA > >> > >> From: "Phil Matheson" <mathes...@dodo.com.au> > >> Date: 2006/06/24 Sat PM 10:30:26 EDT > >> To: "KRnet" <kr...@mylist.net> > >> Subject: Re: KR> oils and stuff > >> > >> Colin Wrote :Just for the record I will say this is foolish and > >> potentially > >> catastrophic > >> ---------------------------------------------------- > >> This is a reply from Ron Slender VW Engines, > >> > >> > >> Phill, > >> I would like Colin to have a look at the article on oils I sent > you. > >> Agreed > >> that the refining processes are much more advanced from years > gone by > >> however > >> that applies to all viscosities of oil including single > viscosity. > >> The reality is that single viscosity oils handle a higher heat > range > >> better > >> than a multigrade. > >> Additionally a multigrade was primarily developed so that an auto > engine > >> could start at a relatively cold condition and gradually reach > operating > >> temperature which in most vehicles is around 160/180 degrees. > >> > >> Multigrade oils have a lot of polymers and additives to give the > oil the > >> viscosity but do nothing to help lubrication, in fact they break > down in > >> high temp conditions. > >> > >> Single viscosity can handle the higher temps better. Additionally > the oil > >> tends to "cling " better for cold starts much like the sticky > Shell oil > >> used > >> for aircraft because not all aircraft are used every day. Some > oils can > >> drain off providing high friction starts until oil pressure is > there. > >> > >> I believe that you have to know a lot about the environment the > aircraft > >> is > >> operating in and recommend the oil according to the application. > >> Additionally Phil's engine is basically new and oils that have > friction > >> modifiers and high range of viscosity will effect the running in > of that > >> engine. > >> After Phill has reached 50 hours then he make look at alternative > oil > >> options. > >> However we have used straight 30 ; 40 ; & even 50 (very hot > conditions) > >> and > >> the Shell oil for aircraft for air cooled engines. > >> We do not use multigrade because of the fear that friction > modifiers are > >> often used in these types of oils which inhibit running in. > >> > >> Colin, your article on HP and how it effects speed was very good > >> demonstrating that hotting up an engine can only increase overall > speed > >> marginally. Without going into elaborate equations the power > difference > >> was > >> 35 HP and the actual Torque increase using 2500 rpm as a constant > the > >> extra > >> Torque created by adding an extra 35 HP was only 63 ft lbs and > that was > >> at > >> full power. > >> Same goes for our gear drive engines. We have the Torque that say > a 100 > >> hp > >> creates at 4200 , the reduction drive multiplies the Torque by > the ratio > >> on > >> top of this. As long as a respectable size prop can be used to > benefit > >> from > >> the extra Torque gain then the advantages of a reduction drive is > clear. > >> Because of the extra torque gain take off roll is reduced > particularly > >> when > >> loaded, climb out is great and cruise is probably achieved at a > lower > >> throttle setting because of the prop diameter and available > torque. > >> A reduction drive will not necessarily provide a higher speed > because > >> this > >> is a character of the aircrafts drag as Colin explains. > >> > >> The propeller has not even been discussed. Fixed pitch is a > compromise, > >> that > >> we all except as being the norm because anything else is > expensive. > >> Why not fit a suitable in flight adjustable propeller then you > will see > >> some > >> performance. > >> Trouble is the cost of one of those, but ...I would rather spend > money in > >> that direction then spend lots of $`s trying to squeeze out a few > extra > >> HP > >> out of an engine for very little gain. > >> > >> Not quite with you on oil Colin but I did like your thoughts on > HP and > >> drag. > >> > >> Ron Slender > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> Phillip Matheson > >> 0408665880 (cell) > >> VHPKR > >> Australia. > >> mathes...@dodo.com.au > >> NEW WEB PAGE > >> www.philskr2.50megs.com > >> > >> http://www.vw-engines.com/ > >> OLD WEB PAGE > >> http://mywebpage.netscape.com/flyingkrphil/VHPKR.html > >> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________ > >> Search the KRnet Archives at > http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > >> to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to > krnet-le...@mylist.net > >> please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > >> > > > > > > _______________________________________ > > Search the KRnet Archives at > http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to > krnet-le...@mylist.net > > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > > > > > > _______________________________________ > Search the KRnet Archives at > http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp > to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to krnet-le...@mylist.net > please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html > >
Virgil N. Salisbury - AMSOIL www.lubedealer.com/salisbury Miami ,Fl
