Hi :) Blimey!! Is it possible to break it down into smaller "bite sized" problems? Also any chance of doing summaries of the main points?
I am copying this to the international translators mailing list but i doubt anyone is going to be able to read through the whole thing there. Hopefully some people might be attracted to one or two points that are their own pet issues too and may be able to help a bit!! Good luck all! Regards from Tom :) > > > On 10 April 2015 at 22:24, CVAlkan <fobe...@enteract.com> wrote: > >> For the record, I’m using Writer Version: 4.3.3.2, Build ID: >> 9bb7eadab57b6755b1265afa86e04bf45fbfc644 running on Ubuntu 14.04 LTS. >> >> This is a question about the dialog box resulting from Tools > Options > >> Language Settings > Languages in LibreOffice, and very specifically the >> check box for “Complex text layout (CTL)” under “Default languages for >> Documents” as well as its interaction with the check box “For the current >> document only.” >> >> The help facility and “official” documentation shy away from any >> discussion >> of how all this works, although the LibreOffice 4.2 Writer Guide (page 67) >> does explicitly say “If you want the language setting to apply to the >> current document only, instead of being the default for all new documents, >> select For the current document only, which is consistent with what I >> would >> expect it to mean. >> What seems to happen, however, is that regardless of whether I check “For >> the current document only,” the status of the check box for “Complex text >> layout (CTL)” then seems to be set for any and all documents I open >> (whether >> in the same of different sessions) thereafter. What am I missing? The box >> doesn’t seem to do anything. >> >> The documentation also states that this check box enables “support for CTL >> (complex text layout) languages such as Hindi, Thai, Hebrew, and Arabic.” >> I >> can’t comment on Hindi, Hebrew, or Arabic, but when using Thai, all this >> setting does is permit me to “correct” what seems to be odd behavior with >> Writer, but I’ll save that for last. >> >> Several things seem clear when using Thai: the status of the Complex Text >> Layout check box (checked or unchecked) doesn’t seem to have any effect on >> correct positioning of single and multiple diacritics (see the snippet >> below >> – every text editor I have does this correctly as well, although obviously >> there needs to be one or more suitable fonts installed); – clicking within >> any Thai text correctly identifies and displays the language in use in the >> bar at the bottom of the screen; – double-clicking within any Thai text >> correctly selects individual words, such as ใคร from within the phrase >> โม่มีใครอยู่ทีนั่น (Thai doesn’t use spaces between words); – and finally, >> longer sections of Thai text wrap lines at word breaks (these last two of >> course also require an installed Thai dictionary). So, is CTL irrelevant? >> >> Now to the odd and rather annoying behavior: >> >> If the Complex Text Layout check box is UNCHECKED, and my default >> paragraph >> style indicates that the FreeSerif font is in use, when I begin typing >> English, FreeSerif is indeed used. If I switch to Thai (I use iBus as an >> input method), Writer doesn’t use the perfectly good Thai characters >> (u+0e00 >> etc) from within FreeSerif, but instead indicates that it is using >> Liberation Serif which, interestingly, contains no Thai characters at all. >> This can be confirmed by placing the cursor within the Thai text and using >> the Insert > Special Character command. So what font is it actually >> using? I >> exported the file as both an fodt and a pdf to see what I could find. >> >> In the fodt, the only clue I can find is in the following section: >> <office:font-face-decls> >> <style:font-face style:name="FreeSerif" svg:font-family="FreeSerif" >> style:font-family-generic="roman"/> >> <style:font-face style:name="Liberation Serif" >> svg:font-family="'Liberation Serif'" >> style:font-family-generic="roman"/> >> <style:font-face style:name="FreeSans" svg:font-family="FreeSans" >> style:font-family-generic="swiss"/> >> <style:font-face style:name="Liberation Sans" >> svg:font-family="'Liberation Sans'" >> style:font-family-generic="swiss"/> >> <style:font-face style:name="DejaVu Sans" svg:font-family="'DejaVu >> Sans'" style:font-family-generic="system" >> style:font-pitch="variable"/> >> </office:font-face-decls> >> >> The only font which isn’t explicitly used in this document is Deja Vu >> Sans; >> could Writer be getting the Thai glyphs from there? No, the only Thai >> glyph >> in Deja Vu Sans is for the Baht (Thai currency) glyph, so that isn’t the >> font being used. >> >> Hmmm.... >> >> In the pdf export, Adobe Reader informs me that Kinnari is embedded. >> Kinnari >> is a perfectly good Latin/Thai font, but certainly not the best match for >> FreeSerif that I have installed (one can’t argue matters of taste, of >> course, but the Thai characters in FreeSerif seem to be a decent enough >> match to the Latin characters in FreeSerif). >> >> If the Complex Text Layout check box is CHECKED, and I set the CTL font >> also >> to FreeSerif, things seem to work as I would expect, but where does the >> Writer come up with its default Lohit Hindi font (which also has no Thai >> glyphs and isn’t even installed on my system)? And why do I need to set >> anything at all? >> I can’t find any straightforward explanation of how all this is supposed >> to >> work (or actually works), so while attempting to figure this out (I do >> actually mix multiple languages within single documents and it’s a pain), >> I >> began keeping notes, having a vague idea that I could pass them on to Jean >> Hollis Weber and her crew to incorporate into the documentation, but I’ve >> become hopelessly lost. >> The ability to specify a substitute for a font that doesn’t contain the >> Unicode planes you need (or contains ones you don’t care for) is good and >> useful, but I can’t come to grips with the idea that if I have a font >> that’s >> been chosen to meet the needs of a particular document and contains all >> the >> required glyphs in all the required languages, I can’t just start typing >> away, switching keyboard layouts as I wish. >> I fully understand, of course, that languages and fonts are not related, >> some Unicode planes are utilized by more than one language, and that >> therefore Writer may need help to figure out what language is intended, >> but >> for the most part (at least in my experience, this is fairly rare). >> Can anyone explain what’s going on? I hate to file a bug, even about the >> behavior of the “For the current document only” check box if it’s simply >> that I may be making this all too complicated, but it’s starting to become >> annoying. >> >> Thanks ahead of time for any comments or guidance. >> >> >> >> >> -- >> View this message in context: >> http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Complex-Text-Layout-Confusion-tp4145897.html >> Sent from the Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. >> >> -- >> To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org >> Problems? >> http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ >> Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette >> List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/ >> All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be >> deleted >> > > -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
