He doesn't need to hit the Dev list, I can help him set up the initial bit this weekend once I'm back at my desk. Michael
-- Akerbeltz • Goireasan Gàidhlig air an lìon Fòn: +44 141 9464437 Facs: +44 141 9452701 Tha Gàidhlig aig a' choimpiutair agad, feuch e! www.iGaidhlig.net -------- Original message -------- From: Mihovil Stanić <miho...@miho.im> Date:09/12/2015 15:40 (GMT+01:00) To: l10n@global.libreoffice.org Subject: Re: [libreoffice-l10n] Re: Bavarian and Nipmuck - report dev-l...@lists.mozilla.org 09.12.2015 u 15:37, Greater Worcester Land Trust je napisao/la: > I am not deterred from thinking that a practical daily use program in the > language would be a great help to those working in it and on it. > > I will say that translating literature isn't my gift or talent, but I can > break down technical concepts pretty well. > > I am interested in pursuing Firefox as a trial run, and if that doesn't > break me, eventually return to LO and have a go at it. > > Thanks to everyone for the input, critique, and advice. > > If anyone knows folks on the Mozilla Firefox team I would be deeply > appreciative of an introduction to their l10n effort. > > Thank you. > > Colin > On Dec 9, 2015 9:31 AM, "Michael Bauer" <f...@akerbeltz.org> wrote: > >> Somehow the mail client ate most of my email, reposting, sorry... >> >> --- >> >> Sorry for the delay in responding, I'm travelling. >> >> I think I disagree with most things that have been said in this discussion >> so far. >> >> Let me try and go through them one by one... >> >> 1) Orthography >> >> Terrible reason to turn down a project. Most l10n projects LO has involve >> languages where spellling is a potentially contentious issue. Perhaps the >> really big locales have very settled spelling systems but even they are not >> immune. For example, I doubt that anyone is enforcing either pre or post >> spelling reform spellings in the German project. Some locales actually >> deliberately use l10n to help standardize spelling. >> >> 2) Team size >> >> Errr no. 1 dedicated locaizer is more than enough. I have a day job and I >> also do virtually all the l10n work on Mozilla, LO, WorPress (both), VLC, >> and several other projects. In fact, a single localizer can be more >> effective in some instances provided they put in sufficient time and >> effort. In fact having a team for Scottish Gaelic initially would have been >> a hindrance, not a help because there would have been ENDLESS debates >> around terminology and spelling. In a non-standardized language, a single >> translator can produce translations which are superior than those of a >> team, provided they are fluent and generally good with technology. >> >> 3) It's extinct or critically endangered >> >> Well, so is Scottish Gaelic, less than 60k speakers is hardly a stadium >> full of people... l10n is a key part of any revitalization effort in a >> society which is not cut off from technology. It is perhaps the one way in >> which a marginalized language can gain a foothold on the screens of the >> next generation, small as it may be. A program with a UI in a marginalized >> language has a big wow factor if done well. If you localize Diablo III into >> German, people just expect that, it's not news. Translate it into Nipmuck >> and it'll be all over the airwaves. >> >> Wikipedia or even Ethnologue are not the pinnacle of information when it >> comes to smaller languages. On several occasions have I come across >> languages marked as extinct in one, but not the other or vice versa or even >> where both were simply wrong. For example, they had a Basque Creole lumped >> in with a Romani language code in once instance. >> >> 4) Better to translate literature >> >> Yes and no. I'm a very good localizer but I'm totally useless at >> translating literature or poetry or songs. It's called a specialism, no >> translator worth their money translate EVERYTHING. I'd be equally useless >> at writing non-technical content. >> >> 5) Start with documentation/help >> >> No.It would raise the wrong expectations, if you give the average user a >> screen that says Fàilte, unless highly cynical, they would expect the rest >> in the same lingo too. >> >> As to the Help, who reads the Help? Ever? Unless they don't have web >> access. Even if some folk use it, it's the worst starting point and a >> soul-destroying task. >> >> 6) Professors say to prioritise proofing >> >> Maybe but that depends on the locale. To create a spellchecker you first >> need either really good dictionary or ody of well spelled texts, plus >> someone who can do code to some extent because doing a Hunspell package is >> not entirely straight forward. Grammar checkers are equally nice but not a >> priority to begin with I would say. Small languages often have not codified >> their grammar fully and thus if you just write some rules, you'll just >> annoy everybody. >> >> In the end, these are just opinions. They are neither uniform (I disagree >> for one) not are they based on research. >> >> 7) Firefox >> >> That is actually the best alternative suggestion I've heard in this >> debate. It might make sense to look into that. But either way, LO and >> Firefox are both must-haves really so it doesn't make that much of a >> difference which one you start with. Firefox, since it has Android and iOS >> versions now, would get you more bang for your buck faster though to begin >> with >> >> 8) Machine Translation >> >> Worst idea ever. MT relies on massive bilingual corpora - and that's just >> the start of the headaches. The last thing a language like Nipmuck needs is >> a MT system that cost them huge resources to produce and which outputs >> semi-gibberish at best. Irish is in a much better position regarding >> English/Irish data and yet Google Translate produces Irish which either >> makes you laugh yourself silly or makes you cry. >> >> Long story short, my view is, welcome to both, just have a moment to >> consider the implications regarding time/effort/other challenges and if you >> still think it's a good idea, good on you. >> >> Michael >> -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: l10n+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/l10n/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
