I like the painting of the Cardinal because it shows the use of lace ecclesiastically. We often see wide borders called flounces such as the Cardinal is wearing and our first assumption is that they must come from the bottom of a woman's dress. Sometimes this is puzzling because the era of the lace might not correspond with the use of flounces in costume. The fact that clerics were wearing so much lace adds another element of confusion to dating and identifying lace, because I think I have read that certain styles of lace such as Venetian Gros Point continued to be made for the Church long after they had passed out of fashion for non-eclesiastical use. Likewise the painting by Jean Marc Nattier of Madame Marsdlier and her Daughter shows a dressing table with a lace skirt. How many of the "flounces" in lace collections are actually such furnishing laces? Devon - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED]