I believe that the thorns came from a hawthorn that grew as a shrub (not the tree), and again I believe that it was brought to this country by the Europeans. I don't quite know if Britain is "northern". The thorns grow to 5" and are very slender and were commonly used as pins. But I think you would be correct that although they are slender, they wouldn't do for lace. Guess that is why you never read references to "thorn lace". ;-)
I think that metal pins were used very early. What was invented wasn't the pin, but rather the modern method for attaching the pin head -- a labor saving invention that reduced the price. I wonder if the lacemakers were able to make lace without pins in the ground, during the period we are discussing? I suppose that the pins aren't really visible and distinct in the paintings that exist of lacemakers then. Seems that is the only way we'll know for sure. Carolyn Carolyn Hastings Stow, MA USA > -----Original Message----- > From: Jean Barrett [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Sunday, June 29, 2003 3:07 AM > To: etherege > Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [lace] Fish bones and thorns > > > Good morning All, > On the subject of thorns for pins in lacemaking, I can see this as a > possibility in some places, but I cannot think of a north European > plant which has thorns long, thin and sharp enough to use > like this. On > the fish bone issue too when you think of such things and the straw > pillows in use at these historic times, they just would not work. > Sharpened chicken bones however, now that just seems possible. The > other thing to perhaps consider is that the laces being made in those > early times probably used few pins and only at the edges of > the work as > in modern freehand lace, so a forest of pins as we sometimes > have today > in point ground lace would have been unheard of. > Jean, rambling on in Cleveland U.K. > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > On Saturday, June 28, 2003, at 12:34 PM, etherege wrote: > > > Hello, > > > > Can anyone imagine actually pushing small bones of fish > into a hard, > > straw-stuffed pillow?? Psssh. > > > > OTH, it is pretty well verified that thorns were used as > pins to close > > clothing a couple of centuries ago. There are bushes that > have very > > long and slender thorns that are suitable for that, but I > have a hard > > time imagining being able to place them closely enough and > precisely > > enough for the purposes of the fine laces made at the time. > (I have > > actually used them -- my husband grew a bush of the > appropriate sort, > > just so I could try -- in my reenacting days) > > > > Just out of curiousity, I wonder what lace traditions in other > > countries > > say about it? Do the authors of lace history in Italy, France, and > > Belgium say that this kind of a "pin" was used? Anyone know? > > > > Carolyn > > > > Carolyn Hastings > > Stow, MA USA > > > > > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > >> Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >> Sent: Saturday, June 28, 2003 1:59 AM > >> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >> Subject: [lace] Fish bones and thorns > >> > >> > >> From Lace and Bobbins, T.L.Huetson 1973 > >> "The making of pillow lace requires the use of pins, and > when the art > >> of making lace was brought to England these were very expensive. > >> Consequently the > >> workers had to improvise their own, long thorns being used in > >> the midlands and > >> fish bones in south Devon. The lace-makers along the coast > >> of Devon, where > >> fishing was their livelihood, were in the ideal position of > >> having plenty of fish > >> from which to choose good strong slender bones of suitable length." > >> > >> His bibliography includes Thomas Wright and Palliser, neither of > >> which I have, so I can't follow it back. > >> > >> In 1987, when I was doing City and Guilds at Camberley > with Ann Day, > >> one of the other students did some research trying to find suitable > >> bones (and I think > >> thorns as well); from what I can remember without much > >> success. Perhaps they > >> are now reading this and can recall the results better than I can. > >> > >> Jacquie > >> - > >> To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the > >> line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >> > > - > > To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the > > line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > - To unsubscribe send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [EMAIL PROTECTED]
