hallo,
what is this?
I have a great love of Sanquhar (and also Selbuvotter, which is less 3 ply
specific).
it sound very Nordic or Irisch or does it make part of some other
ancient knitting slang?????
it even sounds to me like part a figure from "lords of the ring"
furthermore i want to say that the normal industry is split into 2 sections
knitting and weaving manufacturers
most are realy specialised in one or the other
and if you are in busines on the knitting industry
you will only find Nm mentionings
never fingering aran or others
in fact i have asked some producers the same question
they never heard about that aran laceweight etc
as far as they recollect they only have uesed Nm and in the old days
they had 3 other numbers but then one of the region of limoges france
told me that even that is a very very long time ago
"Worsted" numbers
Dewsbury numbers which are for the very thick counts
and the woolen numbers
i agree 100% on what brenda says
it is time to put the real numbers on the articles and not some own
factory label
for making tit not easy to compare to other materials
all the links i got for reference do help a bit
to make a small chart
many thx to all
francis
Susan Reishus schreef:
Thank you for your letter. I noted your textile weights given on the list and
appreciate it.
I have a bunch of British 4 ply by various vendors, inherited from a relative (I have
Scottish/English ancestry but was born/live in the US), and 4 ply is definitely
thicker; somewhere between fingering and sport (US terms). I have addressed this
with people/knitters who are considered expert in the industry and they all concur
that fingering is finer than 4 ply and also place it between fingering and sport.
Your explanation of fingering references in the UK perhaps explains a lot, but it is
considered a valid description here, and now with the resurgence of sock yarns, is
often now called fingering/sock yarn. <S>
I agree that the lines have become blurred with perpetual transitions as the industry
has had many resurgences this last century as trade and communication increases. I
have ordered inordinate amounts of yarn from Colourmart also and have to order what
he calls 4 ply to get fingering to use for my designs and fingering sweater patterns.
I also collect knitting needles and have a predispositition toward a particiular UK
needle so often have to merge the UK/US/mm size qualifications. <S>
On the aside, do you know of a good source for 3 ply? I have a great love of
Sanquhar (and also Selbuvotter, which is less 3 ply specific). Substitution of
fingering/2 ply isn't always satisfactory since it if finer and because the
design and more sophisticated glove pattern, yarn thickness (along with needles
of course) are often the only way to control as most were knit with 3 ply.
TIA,
Susan Reishus
--- On Tue, 3/3/09, Brenda Paternoster <paternos...@appleshack.com> wrote:
From: Brenda Paternoster <paternos...@appleshack.com>
Subject: Re: [lace] Laceweight Yarn vs. Thread Thickness
To: "Susan Reishus" <elationrelat...@yahoo.com>
Cc: l...@dont.panix.com
Date: Tuesday, March 3, 2009, 3:36 AM
Hello Sue
http://www.colourmart.com/eng/knowledge_base/knitting_properties";
The only challenge on the aside, is this chart
reverses the weights of 4 ply and fingering, as Richard of
Colourmart engaged a relatively "novice knitter"
when he started his business to help him set up the chart,
and she was unfamiliar with fingering. 4 ply typically
tends to be thicker than fingering, thought the lines have
blurred in all descriptions as knitting becomes more
international.
If the Nm sizes are correct and the 4 ply is Nm2/14 and the
fingering is Nm 3/14 then the chart is correct with 4 ply
finer than fingering.
Originally, fingering was 2 ply, and 4 ply was as
stated. The old rule was that sport was doubled fingering,
and worsted was doubled sport, and the UK double knitting
falls between sport and worsted (5 sts per inch in
stockinette/stocking stitch).
In UK it used to be 2 ply, 3 ply and 4 ply which were just
that, getting thicker with each additional ply, double
knitting which was thicker but still with 4 plies and
occasionally Aran which was very thick. Everyone knew what
the names meant and although manufacturers didn't like
to say so, one brand of 4 ply was very much like any other
brand of 4 ply. Fingering meant a quality worsted which had
been carded and combed whilst 'ordinary' wools were
just combed.
Then synthetics (acrylic mainly) were introduced and they
started making all sorts of different yarns and also used
fewer but thicker plies (less spinning so cheaper to make!)
Added to that the internet meant that lots of American yarns
and patterns became available. Not only were the Americans
using a different numbering system for their needles, but
they also used different descriptions for their yarns. No
wonder people got confused!
The needle sizing is getting better now with metric sizes
becoming the norm in most places. It would be nice if the
manufacturers would start putting a 'proper' size
onto their yarns, probably Nm (indirect) or Tex (direct).
With the exception of someone who is hand-spinning I'm
pretty sure that all the yarn manufacturers do know how much
fibre goes into each metre of yarn and/or how many Km they
get from a Kg of fibres, and thus they do know the Nm/Tex.
They can keep the fancy brand names, just add a proper size!
The very finest laceweight is called cobweb, but
unfortunately I do not remember the wraps per inch (wpi)
which is more definitive in thread, and less so with yarn
(because of the stretchiness, thus varying thickness of it).
I have a sample of TM Hunter's 1 ply which measures 15
w/cm (37 w/inch). I also have some Jamieson & Smith 1
ply on a UFO somewhere but I can't find it!
As mentioned weights cannon amply apply here since
some fibers are much heavier than others so cannot directly
indicate thickness nor yardage.
Cotton and linen have specific gravities of 1.54
Wool is 1.32 and silk 1.3
Synthetics are usually 1.11 - 1.15
Thus you can compare cotton and linen, you can compare wool
and silk and you can more or less compare synthetics.
Brenda in Allhallows, Kent
http://paternoster.orpheusweb.co.uk/index.html
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