Thank you for your letter. I noted your textile weights given on the list and appreciate it.
I have a bunch of British 4 ply by various vendors, inherited from a relative (I have Scottish/English ancestry but was born/live in the US), and 4 ply is definitely thicker; somewhere between fingering and sport (US terms). I have addressed this with people/knitters who are considered expert in the industry and they all concur that fingering is finer than 4 ply and also place it between fingering and sport. Your explanation of fingering references in the UK perhaps explains a lot, but it is considered a valid description here, and now with the resurgence of sock yarns, is often now called fingering/sock yarn. <S> I agree that the lines have become blurred with perpetual transitions as the industry has had many resurgences this last century as trade and communication increases. I have ordered inordinate amounts of yarn from Colourmart also and have to order what he calls 4 ply to get fingering to use for my designs and fingering sweater patterns. I also collect knitting needles and have a predispositition toward a particiular UK needle so often have to merge the UK/US/mm size qualifications. <S> On the aside, do you know of a good source for 3 ply? I have a great love of Sanquhar (and also Selbuvotter, which is less 3 ply specific). Substitution of fingering/2 ply isn't always satisfactory since it if finer and because the design and more sophisticated glove pattern, yarn thickness (along with needles of course) are often the only way to control as most were knit with 3 ply. TIA, Susan Reishus --- On Tue, 3/3/09, Brenda Paternoster <[email protected]> wrote: > From: Brenda Paternoster <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [lace] Laceweight Yarn vs. Thread Thickness > To: "Susan Reishus" <[email protected]> > Cc: [email protected] > Date: Tuesday, March 3, 2009, 3:36 AM > Hello Sue > > > > http://www.colourmart.com/eng/knowledge_base/knitting_properties"; > > > The only challenge on the aside, is this chart > reverses the weights of 4 ply and fingering, as Richard of > Colourmart engaged a relatively "novice knitter" > when he started his business to help him set up the chart, > and she was unfamiliar with fingering. 4 ply typically > tends to be thicker than fingering, thought the lines have > blurred in all descriptions as knitting becomes more > international. > If the Nm sizes are correct and the 4 ply is Nm2/14 and the > fingering is Nm 3/14 then the chart is correct with 4 ply > finer than fingering. > > > > Originally, fingering was 2 ply, and 4 ply was as > stated. The old rule was that sport was doubled fingering, > and worsted was doubled sport, and the UK double knitting > falls between sport and worsted (5 sts per inch in > stockinette/stocking stitch). > In UK it used to be 2 ply, 3 ply and 4 ply which were just > that, getting thicker with each additional ply, double > knitting which was thicker but still with 4 plies and > occasionally Aran which was very thick. Everyone knew what > the names meant and although manufacturers didn't like > to say so, one brand of 4 ply was very much like any other > brand of 4 ply. Fingering meant a quality worsted which had > been carded and combed whilst 'ordinary' wools were > just combed. > > Then synthetics (acrylic mainly) were introduced and they > started making all sorts of different yarns and also used > fewer but thicker plies (less spinning so cheaper to make!) > Added to that the internet meant that lots of American yarns > and patterns became available. Not only were the Americans > using a different numbering system for their needles, but > they also used different descriptions for their yarns. No > wonder people got confused! > > The needle sizing is getting better now with metric sizes > becoming the norm in most places. It would be nice if the > manufacturers would start putting a 'proper' size > onto their yarns, probably Nm (indirect) or Tex (direct). > With the exception of someone who is hand-spinning I'm > pretty sure that all the yarn manufacturers do know how much > fibre goes into each metre of yarn and/or how many Km they > get from a Kg of fibres, and thus they do know the Nm/Tex. > They can keep the fancy brand names, just add a proper size! > > > The very finest laceweight is called cobweb, but > unfortunately I do not remember the wraps per inch (wpi) > which is more definitive in thread, and less so with yarn > (because of the stretchiness, thus varying thickness of it). > I have a sample of TM Hunter's 1 ply which measures 15 > w/cm (37 w/inch). I also have some Jamieson & Smith 1 > ply on a UFO somewhere but I can't find it! > > > As mentioned weights cannon amply apply here since > some fibers are much heavier than others so cannot directly > indicate thickness nor yardage. > Cotton and linen have specific gravities of 1.54 > Wool is 1.32 and silk 1.3 > Synthetics are usually 1.11 - 1.15 > Thus you can compare cotton and linen, you can compare wool > and silk and you can more or less compare synthetics. > > Brenda in Allhallows, Kent > http://paternoster.orpheusweb.co.uk/index.html - To unsubscribe send email to [email protected] containing the line: unsubscribe lace [email protected]. For help, write to [email protected]
