The market and the education environments are practical unaware that we exist.
Em 13/02/2012, às 14:55, Everton Vieira escreveu: > This discussion walked too much about the tech which i don`t think is the > case. > > But JuhaManninen had said so goodly: > > " > > The fact is that FPC / Lazarus is an almost unknown niche language / > environment. I am studying information technology and programming in a > university of applied sciences and there nobody knows about FPC or Lazarus, > not even the teachers. Everybody knows about C, C++, Java, Eclipse, .NET, C#, > PHP, Python, sh scripts, Lisp, even Haskell, but not about FPC or Lazarus. > If those people don't know, it means nobody knows. > Comparing FPC / Lazarus directly with Java / Eclipse and saying they are > equal is not a balanced comparison. You ignore that Java has millions of > developers while FPC / Lazarus only has few desperate geeks (like myself). > <smile.gif> > > Why is it so? Another fact is that FPC / Lazarus would deserve better. > As a comparison: why is PHP so popular and still gaining popularity? The > language itself has nothing exciting. It is a dynamic language and should not > be suitable for big projects, yet big and high-quality projects like Drupal > and Zend have been developed with it. > PHP's secrets are : > - ease of deployment > - ease of usage > - good documentation (see php.net) > > FPC libs are documented somehow, LCL not so well. Even the documented things > are difficult to find. > One problem are the "black holes" in the libraries, most notably the > container libraries. Every decent programming environment today has a well > structured, well documented (generics) container library. FPC / Lazarus has > not. Instead it has some competing containers in FCL and LCL, and some > generics containers which have some kind of beta status. For example there > are associative hash maps in many places (no generics ones) but nobody knows > about their usage. > This is like directly from early 1990's. > > How to improve things: > - Better container lib. > - Better documentation. > - Easier installation. > - Publicity! This would be the most important now. The other parts are in a > decently good condition. > Successful projects have a public relations side-project, advertising > themselves somehow. Product releases are one way to get free advertising. > Thus it is very bad for publicity that Lazarus has releases so seldom. A > product release is always mentioned in some programming site, read by > potential users. Without releases this looks like a dead project. > > I think CodeTyphon has good goals to solve some of these problems. I don't > know how well they did it, I honestly have never tried it yet. > > Garbage collector in FPC is a bad idea IMO. Compiled binary code, manual > memory management, reference counted strings and a clear syntax make up a > unique combination. > What are the practical alternatives when you want tight code without garbage > collection? They are C and C++. > Often people are afraid of memory problems because they have struggled with > C++. They think the problems were caused by memory management while in fact > they were caused by C++ syntax and features. > In school I had to make string class with overloaded "=" and "+" operators > using C++. Even with that "simple" class I had serious memory problems > (crashes and leaks). Using Object Pascal I could do a class with similar > complexity without memory problems. > I would say in 99% of cases the memory allocation / release is easy and has > no issues when the objects' ownership is well defined. > The remaining 1% needs some effort. There was an issue with Lazarus where a > garbage collection would have helped: > #18506: access violation when switching designer/lfm source > but that was really the only bad one I have struggled with. > > " > > Em 13/02/2012, às 14:28, Reinier Olislagers escreveu: > >> On 13-2-2012 17:24, Everton Vieira wrote: >>> I found this: >>> http://forum.lazarus.freepascal.org/index.php/topic,13754.msg86355.html#msg86355 >>> >>> But not sure if you referred this. >>> >> Yep, that's the thread I was talking about... >> >> Regards, >> Reinier >> >> >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> Lazarus mailing list >> Lazarus@lists.lazarus.freepascal.org >> http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus >
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