On Thu, Feb 01, 2001 at 03:23:42PM -0800, Scott C. Best scribbled:
> the certification process. It is expensive: $25k for non-FWPD
> consortium members and $15k for members. That's per product
>
> This leaves me wondering...is it worth it? To reach
No way.
> a specific target user for LEAF, I think it is required. Is
> reaching that user worth it? Well...I also think so: I think
It wouldn't be worth it to me, but then, I'm just about
finished paying off my 5 year $11,000 car loan [early,
as far as the loan is concerned, though certainly not as
far as the life of the car is concerned]. Maybe you have
that kind of money to throw around.
> that most people who are authorized to approve the use and
> purchase of a firewall platform are also the same sort of people
> who would rely on a silly consortium to approve one for them in
Very true.
> the first place. Which is to say, the largest target user-base
> doesn't *want* to know the details of a firewall or its
> certification, then just want to know that *someone* certified it.
Why is it we feel the need to go after that demographic?
> Okay, sure, some of the ICSA guidelines are good ones...though
> I can't imagine using anything that didn't meet them at the
> very least.
How about this:
"Meets ICSA guidelines.*"
"<fineprint>* == Not ICSA certified</fineprint>"
Heheheh.
> Anyhow. As a few of you know, I started a company ~2.5
> years ago to write some networking software to make these
> 'home-networking' things easy to setup and to use. My wife
> and I have bootstrapped its funding from day-1 and we're
> actually to a point now where we've some demo'able software
> that might actually be productizable. For everything you've
Cool. Did not know that.
> What's my point. What I think is doable is that, under
> the auspices of my company (a really normal Class-C California
> corporation), I could start moving the certification process
> forward with ICSA. My understanding is that the ICSA would want
> it that way: a representative company with a specific product,
> rather than a team of distro developers. I'd want to do this
> *IF AND ONLY IF*
> the LEAF developer team agrees it's a worthwhile thing to do. Here's
Well, we have to look at our motivations here; I'd hate to see
anybody, even somebody with money to throw around [not to imply
that you are such a person] drop $25k on a little badge for the
web page.
Has anybody looked for some free certifications?
> the biggest problem: I will be, to some degree, presenting a LEAF
> distro to the ICSA guys under the premise that it's a product of my
> company. Which, let me be the first to say, it's NOT: it's the work
> of all of YOU guys, of Dave Cinege, of the dozens of real developers
> out there. I'm just coding a pretty face on it. So it could be very,
> very easy for me to quickly look like someone that's trying to
> outright steal this open-source work and misrepresent it as my own.
> And I've got more trouble with *that* image than anyone.
Can't say as I'd blame you for feeling bad about that potential
scenario.
> So before I move this one more micron forward, I wanted
> to solicit for some candid feedback about your collective feelings
> about doing it. My intention is *not* to prop-up my startup
It's not shameful to use this as a tool to prop-up your company.
Indeed, it's a perfect example of cooperation of opensource and
business, where one helps the other greatly. I say, if it helps,
use it.
Besides, when your company turns into a Linux-based Cisco, I'm
willing to bet everybody on this list will be pulling in six
digit salaries, right? ;-)
> (though a successful certification, admittedly, will), but rather
> to explore opening a 'new market' for things LEAF'y. I'm sure
> such things have happened before to other open-source projects
> (was there discuss like this when Cayote appeared? Or when tripwire
> went commercial?), but I've never been on a mailing list when
> someone first brought it up (hey, a first).
I think we're all looking at lots of firsts, together.
> Please let me know your thoughts, feel free to flame if
> needed. :) I've got too much respect for you people to consider
> this without asking about it WAY up front.
Okay, here it is:
Why is it that we feel this need to target that demographic?
Why do we even talk about targetting _any_ demographic?
We need to investigate out motives thoroughly, IMO. The point of
opensource projects is _not_ supposed to be to target a demographic
or put out a better 'product' than somebody else; rather, what makes
the opensource world go around is the pursuit of excellence. A good,
successful opensource project's goal is to make it's work better
than it already is. Is that what we're going after, or are we going
after popularity?
I keep asking this, but nobody seems to answer, or even notice what
I'm really asking here...What are we doing? Why? Is it excellence
we're going after, or something else? What _should_ we go after?
Of course, what do I know; who am I...just another one of us
schmoes on this list. :)
> cheers,
> Scott
--
rick -- A mind is like a parachute... it only works when it's open.
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