On 2/7/02 at 1:54 PM, Charles Steinkuehler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

> I would *REALLY* like to have a powerful scripting
> language available by default for use on future LEAF
> distributions (yes, shell scripting is powerful, it's just
> lacking a bit in the data manipulation department). Since
> I'd like for all distributions to include this scripting
> language, and I want to continue supporting a single
> floppy disk environment, the first big requirement is
> small size.

Ahh.... just up my alley - Languages!!

> I'm currently looking at a lot of options, but lua, forth,
> and rexx seem the most promising (yes, forth and rexx are
> kind of dated, but the're still usable).

Forth is NOT dated :P

> Possibilities include:
> 
> lua

The Oxygen CDROMs have lua.lrp and luasockt.lrp - but luasockt.lrp
appears to SegFault.

> forth

The CDROMS also have eforth - and maybe gforth.

> scheme

scsh.lrp is available, again on the CDROMs.

> ruby

Ruby is biggish - more like Perl - but wonderful nonetheless.

> ???

I've also rc (the Plan 9 shell) and a few other languages, I think.

Lua, Forth, rc are all small - Ruby and scsh are big.  rc is about
90k; lua with all the trimmings (POSIX, Sockets...) is about 100k. 
Forth is somewhere about 40k I think but I've not looked at it
recently.

In contrast, scsh I vaguely remember being 200-300k, and Ruby about
400k.

All of these packages should be available in Oxygen's package
directory.

> The intent would be to use the new scripting language to
> implement several functions currently implemented as
> binary programs, shell-scripts, or not implemented at all.
>  Examples would include:
> 
> linuxrc boot script
> packaging system
> dhcp server/client
> web server
> ftp/http/tftp client for loading packages
> menu-based configuration system
> e-mail sending utility
> ???

Trouble is, you still need /bin/sh - and one can do a lot in /bin/sh. 
If you switch script languages, you have to ADD a language in addition
to /bin/sh.

> Am I missing any major options, and does anyone have
> strong thoughts about any of the options listed above?

Lua is very nice, and rc is intriguing.  rc could take some getting
used to for a person with extensive /bin/sh experience - only because
some things don't work the same.  I think quoting is simpler.

Lua is stripped down - to make a good standalone scripting language
one needs to add things like the POSIX extensions.
 
> Anyone worked with more than one of the above options and
> have comparisons or comments?  Should I axe forth as being
> too anachronistic, or can people in the 21st century still
> understand something so ancient?

May I say that I disassembled an Apple II FORTH system and ported it
from one operating system to another....?

You might say I enjoy FORTH - and you'd be understating things :)

While I'm talking of it - the Sparc machines use a FORTH boot, and
FreeBSD was going to a FORTH boot system too.
--
David Douthitt
UNIX Systems Administrator
HP-UX, Unixware, Linux
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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