George, I'm kind of curios. Why did you feel the need to cross-post to lists not related to LEAF? Odd, one in San Diego and the other in New York? How incredibly odd. Did you want encompass the United States, some LEAF developers are not US citizens you know, you might want to cross post to lists in France, Germany, Brazil and Japan too.
If you had leaf related questions, why did not ask them on the publicly available LEAF-USER list and not copy email lists that the VAST majority of people on said lists are not subscribed too? Instead of asking specific questions you start off with a general leading question and then launch into an attack. I name thee TROLL! I thought about not sending this message, but you just didn't appear to do your research and quite frankly there is a hell of a lot of FREE support on the leaf-user lists. I note that http://www.mail-archive.com/cgi-bin/htsearch?method=and&format=short&config=l eaf-user_lists_sourceforge_net&restrict=&exclude=&words=George+Georgalis shows that a lot of folks spent a LOT of FREE time helping you out. Never the less, these messages are in the archive so I will endeavor to answer some of your attacks ^H^H^H^H^H^H concerns and ignore others at my whim. And then, quite possibly, black hole any further messages from you because I can and life is not fair. :) I will probably also supply frivolous information to amuse myself because it's late and I am occasionally a random sentence generator. At least that may provide amusement to some. Leaf-project is several different distro's with similar and differing objectives. Your inability to instantly gain all knowledge of it without spending some time doing YOUR homework is tiresome. You assume that because you think you know Linux that you should be able to instantly understand 1 of 5 specialized distributions in the LEAF project and the compromises necessary to fit them on a floppy disk? I wish I had your knowledge and learning skills. No, wait... No I don't. Note: I am speaking for myself because you irked me and it's late where I am. Comments inline marked <sp> > -----Original Message----- > From: George Georgalis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Friday, July 12, 2002 10:56 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: [Leaf-devel] is Bering GNU? > > I'm beginning to have my doubts. Where is > /usr/src/linux/.config? Where are the other compile time > options for other binaries? Just how was > Bering_1.0-rc3_img_bering_1680.bin made? <sp> doubt away and use another project. OR ask politely and you directed to the information. Volunteer projects have a problem - NO PAID SUPPORT! If you perceive a lack, ask/gather the information, do a write up and submit it for inclusion in the FAQ's/Documentation. I will endeavor to direct you to some of the documentation you obviously missed on your first or second perusal of our site. I think the site is up to 2-3GB. > After spending a good part of a week, and _all_ day Friday > getting up a Bering router before a deadline -- subsequently > missing the first day of a conference http://h2k2.org -- I > looked back at what was the problem. I discovered I was > hacking around a product (the Bering image) much like the > manner of before I used Linux. I have this disk image, that I > mount to find, compressed archives, containing finely > tailored scripts and a handful of binaries. Together they > make up the GNU Bering. (And maybe other leaf versions as well.) <sp> Nothing personal but I am reminded of an old IT saying. You lack of planning does not necessarily constitute an emergency on my part ESPECIALLY when you're NOT paying for my time! Why would anyone but you care that you were late to something? Did you get fired? Why would LEAF be relevant to your not planning sufficient testing and implementation time in a project? Configuration is through lrcfg. Not the same as a full distro of Linux. <sp> My first experience was with the Eigerstein distro and I had it set up in 25 minutes. At the time, I didn't even know what Linux was. <sp> Leaf, being specialized, oddly enough, has to make compromises on how some things work. <sp> Perhaps the Bering user doc was to much for you http://leaf.sourceforge.net/devel/jnilo/busers.html <sp> Perhaps the Bering Installation guide was insufficient http://leaf.sourceforge.net/devel/jnilo/binstall.html > I have hunted all over http://leaf-project.org and > http://leaf.sourceforge.net/ for the source, or even a file > that says version xx.yy.zz of busybox was compiled with the > following patch and compile time options. Or maybe a tgz of > the /usr/local/src/bering where the image was made? Nothing. > I find myself writing scripts to extract and compress lrp > files. Surely everyone doesn't gzip -c9 what they made by tar > cf after mounting and extracting their first floppy image? > Is this the intended way to indoctrinate new developers to > the old school? <sp> As for busybox... If you type busybox at the command line, it will give you the version number. Please refer to the Busybox project for further information, they have a mail list of their own. Any patches are supplied by the developers to the busybox folks, we don't maintain busybox. Just grateful for the availability of another open source project that makes ours a reality. I shall assume that you will be able to locate the busybox site with your computing skills. <sp> Also, keep in mind that Sourceforge, (free hosting) not unreasonably has space limitations and LEAF uses a lot of it. So, if you want the kernel source, get it form kernel.org. Tarball's of the distributed kernel's are available for your download, you can read the <sp> This page here http://www.leaf-project.org/mod.php?mod=userpage&menu=1301&page_id=10 Has a link to the LEAF/LRP Developers guide. Start wading. LOOK, on page 9 is the answer to gzip -9 -c Now, this doc doesn't mention Bering, but on the Bering page, it mentions that the main difference between it and the Dachenstein is the firewall (GO RESEARCH SHOREWALL ON YOUR OWN! It has it's own site) and the kernel version. The user guide for Bering is phenomenal. You evidently missed it. > > I even asked a few well read LUG groups what the lrp format > was, or how I could run the lrcfg that I read about without > actually booting the distro. Nobody knew because the design > is not conducive to group development, it's intended use is > like that of proprietary software -- take the binary, > configure it with the configuration menu and be like everyone else. <sp> WHY On Earth would you ask a few 'well read LUG groups' about a specialized Linux distro? But had you looked in the FAQ page: http://sourceforge.net/docman/?group_id=13751 you would have seen a link to here: http://sourceforge.net/docman/display_doc.php?docid=1461&group_id=13751 This line: The tar command is run using the include and exclude lists created above. The output of tar is sent through gzip to create the LRP file. and because it is elsewhere and you probably won't look to find it. The reason it is .lrp and not tar.gz is that the floppy is FAT formatted and is limited to 8.3 filenames. There are historical and compatibility reason for it. I leave that for your own homework. > > Okay, I just found the developer.rtf and scanned the whole > thing. Formidable task, but I only see part of the forest and > none of the trees. I already know Linux and there seem to be > some very specific LRP details in there, but will it be done > before it's out of date? I'm not saying produce a > `./configure && make && make image` but if the environment > for building the release was published, or easier to find, > I'm sure there would be a lot more community support. At one > point I kicked myself for not looking in CVS before, but when > I got in there, was in disbelief -- no source, only doc. <sp> ROFLMAO! You know Linux and ASSUME that a focused highly specialized distro has not made compromises on functionality and you feel inclined to critize BEFORE you have spent some time familiarizing the distro's? Dude, there are 5 LEAF distro's and one of them is Japanese. And they all fit on 1.68MB floppy disks! So they do NOT have a make! Development systems are SEPARATE. There just doesn't seem to be room on the floppy for a compiler. What a shame. You would think with the new BORG nano technologies out that they would EASILY fit a development environment on a floppy now a days. <sp> Build instructions for the build environment are in the document you haven't read and there are other missives elsewhere. http://leaf.sourceforge.net/devel/jnilo/uml.html Many have reported success with this document, perhaps even you too with your awesome computing skills can join that crowd and return triumphant reporting success. <sp> Source, well, some of the source can be found at kernel.org and you can make your own with the instructions here: http://sourceforge.net/docman/display_doc.php?docid=1453&group_id=13751 Granted, it is a little dated, but the mailing archives contain he answer and should this not be enough, ask on the list and OFFER to UPDATE it! > > So now I have problems with my image to resolve, why do those > Belkin cards detect as reltek under RH but, none of the > Bering modules will work with them??? <sp> Don't know, not enough info provided. Go read the How To ask for help link, what modules have you tried? Have you downloaded the kernel tar ball, gone into the /net directory and tried the other modules? Have you read through the Ethernet how to? > How will I ever get my > tulips back from my boss so I can test an image at home? <sp> How on Earth is this remotely relevant to me and unless you send me money, do not expect me to care. > What > am I going to do about making an image and quickly changing a > few parameters (ssh host keys, network, firewall and other > site information) or major structure (LaBera, ppp, ipsec, > dns) without spending a ton of time hand extracting and > compressing components? <sp> Perhaps you could download the precompiled lrp packages and edit the conf files from the lrcfg menu as you did to set up the base install? Perhapes for the SSH part you could read the instructions for ssh1 setup in the FAQ link above. I am a Windows guy myself and I figured it out in 2 weeks. <sp> OR on the front page is a link http://www.leaf-project.org/article.php?sid=41 to ssh 3.2.2 packages. > I'm going to make my own > distribution. reBering. Complete with scripts to mount and > extract all the subcomponents, global configure, mix'n'match > packages, compress and unmount. Only I don't think I can call > it GNU because since I'm in a hurry, I won't have time to > reverse engineer the compile time options and source. I'd > rather work on putting it on an eprom anyway. <sp> You're inability to manage time is unfortunate. Now you have your excuse to make a product and not share. Wonderful. Please move along now. And next time, try not to cross post attacks all over the place! > In all sincerity, Bering is very cool. It could just be a lot > better if it was more in the spirit of _encouraging_ open > source development rather than barley qualifying, actually I > bet if it was audited, it wouldn't pass. If there are > scripts to tar and gzip a lrp package, why aren't they part > of a tools.tgz right beside package_src.tgz and > compile_configs.tgz next to the Leaf_UML packages and > extraction instructions for odd archives? I know asking for > doc is a lot, but maintaining a file of command lines used to > make the binaries from source would be an excellent first step. > > // George > You sent this whole letter out BEFORE YOU read the developers instructions and AFTER you found the document Conviently located under Documents\Guides. You complain about volunteers not being up to your standards, you complain that you are late to something I have never heard of and then you cross post your rant to lists that aren't directly involved with LEAF to my knowledge. Perhaps you could offer to $FUND$ some LEAF/Bering development so that things will be up to 'your' standards. Frankly, you confuse me. You bore me. Learn some manners, grow up and learn to manage your time effectively because I don't care that you are often late, don't know how to manage your time and that your boss has your Tulip cards. Enjoy life. -sp ------------------------------------------------------- This sf.net email is sponsored by:ThinkGeek Welcome to geek heaven. http://thinkgeek.com/sf ------------------------------------------------------------------------ leaf-user mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-user SR FAQ: http://leaf-project.org/pub/doc/docmanager/docid_1891.html
