At 11:05 AM 7/12/2003 -0700, Marc E. Fiuczynski wrote: [...] Seems to me that the LEAF project would vastly benefit from
adopting the recent Debian Mini-Distribution for Diskless Routers (http://www.debian.org/News/weekly/2003/27/). In other words, create a Debian LEAF distribution that trims the fat from Debian, but otherwise adopts the benefits of debian's package system.
I always get nervous when someone advocates having a long established project adopt the approach of a brand-new project. I worry about how well developed the new project is and whether it has the long-term support it needs to be viable (anyone remember Gibraltar, a Debian-based router-on-a-CD-image from a couple of years ago? Google still returns hits for it (as "Linux Gibraltar"), but I can't get them to resolve and DWN never mentions the project any more).
What people seem to overlook in these discussions is that it is already easy to make a router from pretty much any full-size Linux distribution. In fact, a good part of my reduced involvement in LEAF is that for years, I've used a router here based on full-size Debian (originally Potato, now Woody). Though I've used LEAF router for other locations and in lab-bench tests, I found I preferred the convenience of a system that used a hard disk in standard ways and tied into Debian's security-update system.
That's why I think moving LEAF toward full-size systems is an unproductive move ... the regular distros do that job too well already.
Marc, have you actually tried this install script, to see how (or even whether) it works and what the resulting routers look like (in size, performance, ease of adapting to hardware variations, support for the range of external connections people have, and flexibility of the firewalling component ... and maybe more)?
I'd feel better receiving this suggestion based on someone's actual experience with the alternative than just on a write-up in Debian Weekly News (which tends to put positive spins on all the new projects it reports). Trimming the "fat" from Debian is trickier than it sounds, given the requirements that the Debian Packaging Guidelines impose on packaging.
Of course, this will likely require a leap away from being a floppy-based linux router. However, I would argue that limiting LEAF to a floppy-based installation is going to kill it in the long-run.
"In the long run, we are all dead" (John Maynard Keynes). Similarly, all software fades into uselessness sooner or later. Anyway, the real question is not whether LEAF should be "limited" to floppy size but whether it should continue to support floppy-size installs as one of its *options* (something the Debian Router approach seems not to allow as a possibility). I'd worry about viability over a 1-2 year horizon than an ill-defined "long run", and for that timeframe, I think the ability to adapt to use of scrapbox equipment remains a distinct strength for LEAF. To "leap away" from floppies as even an *option* seems to me a bad strategy.
In fact, the WISP distribution of LEAF already requires more space than what fits into a single floppy. And, as Peter mentioned, more packages are being continuously developed and added --- which is a good thing!
Right. But the range of variants that LEAF provides currently allows for both options ... bigger systems that do more, and leaner ones that do the bare minimum. Now I'd agree the the commoditization of router-in-a-box solutions for the home (Linksys, D-Link, etc.) reduces interest in the lower end, just as head-to-head competition from full-size distros reduces interest at the highest end. Flexibility and adaptability in the middle range seems to me LEAF's distinctive strength at this time, and I'd hate to see that strength lost.
------------------------------------------------------- This SF.Net email sponsored by: Parasoft Error proof Web apps, automate testing & more. Download & eval WebKing and get a free book. www.parasoft.com/bulletproofapps1 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ leaf-user mailing list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/leaf-user SR FAQ: http://leaf-project.org/pub/doc/docmanager/docid_1891.html
