Robert Woodmansey wrote:
What for?
Id like to do this in public.
You are censoring comedy
Rob,
Read the following and if you still can't work it then I'm sorry I can't
help you.
You are back on moderation. End Of.
John
The Leeds United Email List
www.leedslist.net
A Guide for List Members
Version 2.0
Contents
1. About the Leeds List, and how to subscribe/unsubscribe
2. DISCLAIMER: This is not an official LUAFC service
3. Copyright Notice
4. How to make best use of the list
4.1 Take what you like, and leave the rest
4.2 The list is as good as we make it
4.3 Write about others as you would like to be written about yourself
4.4 Everyone's welcome
4.5 Abusive/Derogatory Remarks
4.6 Contentious topics
4.7 Humour
4.8 Other words of caution
5. List admin
6. List-related activities
6.1 Leeds United Web Pages
6.2 List mail digest by Email or WWW
6.3 Internet Lards - the List Footie Team
6.4 Meeting before matches, in Leeds and around the world
6.5 Internet Relay Chat (IRC)
7. Thanks, briefly, to everyone
1. ABOUT THE LEEDS LIST
The list is for Leeds fans to talk about Leeds United AFC, and football
in general. It's usually a friendly place, and messages are plentiful.
As well as regular discussion about Leeds matches and news, there are
other activities (a list fantasy league, a predictions league, etc.).
Some members often meet up at matches home, away, and abroad. It is very
much a place for Leeds fans - an "electronic kop" as one subscriber put
it - so while fellow whites will feel at home straightaway, fans of
other teams might not be so comfortable. Nevertheless, other fans do
occasionally subscribe, and only if they seek to create trouble are they
ever asked to leave.
To subscribe: go to www.leedslist.org.uk and go to the section headed
Subscribing to Leedslist. To unsubscribe, go to www.leedslist.org.uk
and go to the section headed Leedslist Subscribers
2. DISCLAIMER
This list is very much a list run for and by Leeds fans; it has no
official connection to Leeds United AFC. The point of this disclaimer is
to place full responsibility for messages which appear on the list
squarely where it should be - with the individual authors. When that is
made clear, then Leeds United, this mailing list, and any institutions
providing mail services can be assured that they are in no way
implicated or associated with extremist, slanderous, or insulting views,
which, regrettably, afflict most electronic mailing lists from time to
time, and football-related lists in particular. By posting to the list,
you are accepting full responsibility for what you write.
Or, to put all that legally . . .
The Leeds United Unofficial E-Mail List is entirely unofficial: it is
not endorsed or connected with Leeds United Association Football Club,
its servants, or agents in any way. The information and or opinions
expressed whether in document, program or graphic image are the
responsibility of the originator and in no way represent or reflect the
aims or opinions of the Leeds United unofficial electronic mailing list
or its maintainers, Leeds United Association Football Club, Zetnet, or
any other person whether legal or otherwise. No reliance should be
placed upon the information received by the receiving party and neither
the maintainer of Leeds United unofficial electronic mailing list nor
Zetnet shall be under any further obligation or liability in this
respect. No warranty, condition or representation of any kind is made
given or to be implied as to the accuracy of such information or as to
the infringement of third party's intellectual property rights through
the use of such information.
Legal stuff looks frightening; it's there should anyone need it to
defend themselves. Avoiding controversy, whether on a legal level or not
is quite straightforward, though - check out the sections on How to make
best use of the list. Following those guidelines helps make the list
hassle-free.
3. COPYRIGHT NOTICE
This section formally asserts the rights of the sender of each post. If
you want to use any message elsewhere for any reason, you must negotiate
permission directly with the original sender. This includes holding
messages on a web site, re-printing them in other publications - in
fact, anything other than quoting them on the list (including the list
digest and web digest) itself.
Most people are very happy when someone wants to use their work
elsewhere, but it's basic courtesy to ask first. The formal copyright
notice below gives the option of full legal redress to any sender who
believes their work has been misused. If things get serious.
All rights reserved. No part of any of the messages may be reproduced or
transmitted in any form or by any means, electronic or mechanical,
including photocopying, recording, or any information storage or
retrieval system without the prior permission of the authors, except
insofar as is reasonably necessary for the purposes of electronic
quotation and discussion arising on the [email protected]
mailing list. The rights of such authors is hereby asserted and shall be
deemed to be protected without the need of further notice or warning.
Should the name and or means of contacting the Copyright owner be
unclear please contact the listowner.
Trouble can easily be avoided of course - simply consult the original
sender if for any reason you want to re-use their message.
4. HOW TO MAKE BEST USE OF THE LIST
The disclaimer, and the comments which followed it may seem excessive,
maybe even making you wary of posting. It should be stressed that these
things have to be said for the relatively few occasions when discussion
on the list has got out of hand. The guidelines which follow should help
you to enjoy the list, and keep it a reasonably happy place to be.
4.1 Take what you like and leave the rest
There are hundreds of people on the list. About a quarter post to it
from time to time, so it's inevitable that you will enjoy some postings,
and detest others. If there's a string of messages you don't like, just
delete them instead of getting steamed up. Concentrate on the stuff you
enjoy.
4.2 The list is as good as we make it
If you don't like what you're reading, then write something else, the
sort of thing you would like to see. Sometimes it's the most opinionated
who do all the talking, which covers up what many others think. Don't be
afraid to express your views - you will find others who agree with you.
There is no official "list view" on any topic, so the mail posted
consists of whatever each member decides to send, no more and no less.
Overseas readers, and those away from Leeds, appreciate local news
items, and especially match reports. Write when you can, if you want to.
4.3 Write about others as you would like to be written about yourself
To avoid the hassles which have occasionally afflicted the list, and
given rise to the scary tones of the disclaimer and bits of this intro
file, be careful what you write. When you write about players and club
officials, and others on the list, remember they are people just like
you, and try to treat them with the respect you would like given to you.
Ultimately, if abusive posting becomes excessive, the good name of Leeds
United, and the continued existence of the mailing list, is put at risk.
4.4 Everyone's Welcome
Everyone's welcome, whether they've been Leeds fans since birth, have
just joined up, or are somewhere in between. Please be patient with the
questions newcomers to both Leeds United and the mailing list come up with.
4.5 Abusive/Derogatory remarks
Generally, conversation on the Leeds list is carried out in a humorous,
good-natured way. Occasionally, though, goodwill between some people
breaks down, and these guidelines have evolved from the list's
experience in the past. It may seem a bit heavy, but it's there for the
few occasions when the good humour runs out, for whatever reason.
Everyone, no matter which team they support, is asked to keep
personal/abusive/racist messages off the list completely; otherwise
discussion is entirely free and open.
Writing to provoke extreme reactions is not what the list is for:
newsgroups like alt.flame or talk.bizarre should be used for that
purpose, and the Leeds list kept for friendly discussion about Leeds
United. This includes replies to abusive messages: if you must flame,
don't write to the list, but direct to the individual concerned. It's
wrong to think that you can post absolutely anything you like about
players, officials, and others from Leeds United or any other club.
Derogatory and abusive remarks can, and sometimes do, reach the eyes and
ears of those about whom they were made. Even if they don't, many list
members find them offensive in the first place.
Incidentally, the terms "derogatory and abusive" have nothing to do with
so-called "Political Correctness" (PC). PC is the laboured use of
euphemisms to describe ethnic groups and the disadvantaged; abuse
consists of serious insults, flaming, and racial or personal slurs. Tact
and friendly courtesy, not PC, is all that's needed to keep most list
members happy; abuse, however, remains unacceptable.
On very rare occasions, people have been removed from the list for going
against these guidelines in a BIG way (only three in over three years,
thankfully). This is done to safeguard the continuation of the list. The
site administrator of such people is informed about the reasons for the
removal.
4.6 Contentious topics
There are a few topics which, if handled insensitively, can end up in
ugly flame wars: please be aware of this, and write in ways that don't
insult and abuse others.
The ethics of the manager and the board: all too often, discussion on
this topic degenerates into slanging matches. Please avoid raising the
subject lightly (after every match report, transfer deal, or whatever),
since the arguments for and against have been aired so frequently that
there is rarely much new or enlightening to be added, and cheap
point-scoring by either side gets irritating.
What makes a real fan: Everyone has their own ideas about what makes a
true fan or supporter, but no one can expect their ideas to be shared by
others. Leeds fans from Yorkshire are naturally especially proud, but
there are people all over the world who are Leeds and proud of it every
bit as much. As far as the list goes, if you've got a positive interest
in Leeds United you're welcome to join, whether your interest is recent
or long-standing, active or relaxed, home or abroad, going to games or
gazing at the telly from your armchair, watching Look North or listening
to short wave radio at strange hours of day and night.
Watching More Games: If you see more games than others use your
knowledge to back up your opinions and help keep the list well-informed,
rather than putting people down for being uncommitted or ignorant. If
you don't see many games for whatever reason, respect the views of those
who do when they use their insights helpfully. Insights can be gained
watching the match at the ground or on television. Insights and
comparisons from the past can also be instructive: many people have been
intensive supporters at different times of their lives, and can supply a
great deal of knowledge and information.
Commitment to Leeds United: Measuring commitment to the cause is
difficult, and on this list with members local and worldwide, it's
fairly pointless. One trip to Elland Road from the USA can cost as much
as a season ticket in the kop for a local fan: which supporter is the
more committed? Not everyone can make it to the ground week in week out,
but their interest and concern about the club can be every bit as great
as someone who has the good fortune to attend regularly.
In general: Many people become more interested and active in their
support of Leeds United as a result of subscribing to the list: use it
to encourage this increased enthusiasm and interest, and help ensure
that this trend continues!
4.7 Humour
A lot of humorous comments are posted to the list (thankfully), but in
some cases the humorous intent isn't always clear. When you make a
subtle joke, please make this absolutely clear when you write - a lot of
misinterpretation can arise because words which would have been spoken
with laughter have been coldly transferred to type, with no clues as to
the real motivations of the writer. Use "smileys", even if you think
you're way too cool for that :-) or add comments at the end to diffuse
any possible bad feeling. Don't use humour as a cheap way to express anger.
4.8 Other words of caution
A mailing list is more like a newspaper than a pub: offhand comments on
a mailing list may not be so quickly forgotten, or as readily
overlooked, as those made when having a pint. Even if the comments are
innocuous, or at worst badly expressed, they can take on totally
unintended significance when relayed, possibly out of context, to other
people. Please be careful what you type, for your own sake, and for the
sake of the list.
5. LIST ADMIN
5.1 Important addresses
There are three addresses you need to know about:
[email protected] is where you send mail for everyone to read.
www.leedslist.org.uk is where you carry out administrative tasks for
your Leeds list subscription.
[email protected] gets you in touch with the list owner if you need
someone's help using the list or the web page interface.
5.2 Posting to the list:
General advice:
5.2.1 Anybody can subscribe to the list, and you must be a subscriber if
you want to post messages to it. To join or start a discussion, send a
message to [email protected]
5.2.2 The REPLY command on your mailer may be set up to send a reply to
the sender of the message and nobody else; messages sent from the list
will tend to be configured to cause this to happen in order to avoid the
technical problems bounced mail can cause. To reply to the list, make
sure you specify [email protected] as the intended recipient.
5.3.3 The prefix LU: is added automatically in front of the subject of
each message to help everyone sort out Leeds mail from the boring stuff.
If you send a message not specific to the subject of Leeds United,
please add the prefix NON to help those who want to delete non-Leeds
mail without reading it. Other subject prefixes can be used, such as FFL
and PL for the Fantasy Football League and Predictions League.
5.3 Please conserve bandwidth
A discussion list is obviously for discussion, but sometimes people send
things pointlessly. There is a need to avoid unnecessary mail for three
reasons. One is the strain the list places on the mail-handling
machines. Another is the fact that many subscribers have to pay to
download all their list data, or wade through a lot of unnecessary mail.
The third is that many subscribers' mail boxes overflow when too much
mail comes their way.
5.4 Posting Netiquette
As far as normal list mail goes:
5.4.1 Please leave out long signature files at the end of your message
5.4.2 Please quote only the bit of a message you're replying to - don't
include the whole message.
5.4.3 Please keep to the subject of Leeds United and related football
issues. Occasional diversions into other subjects - curry houses, beer,
whatever - are okay (the sign of a happy and healthy list, even) but
don't overdo it!
5.4.4 Please read all your mail before sending what you think is
up-to-date news: someone may already have sent the information, or even
the article you have in mind.
5.5 List problems
Any other matters regarding the list should be mailed to the address
[email protected] - sometimes people have problems using
the web pages or the list itself which need the help of the list owner.
Please send such requests for help (including getting help to
unsubscribe if you can't do it automatically) to this address. Don't use
the list address; only the list owner can help you.
5.6 Email address Problems
The commonest problem subscribers have is that the email address they
subscribed under changes (sometimes without their knowledge). Any change
in your address (the one given in the From: line in the header of the
mail you send) means that the majordomo software won't recognise you as
a subscriber, and when you try to send mail to the list, you just get an
error message. If the change to your address is permanent, the solution
is to re-subscribe under your new address, and ask the list owner to
remove the old address for you (unless you can remove it yourself). If
the change isn't permanent, or if you have a UK address with a long form
and a short form, the solution is to re-subscribe under your new address
and get the list-owner to put you on the nomail list. That way, you can
post to the list no matter which form your address takes, but you only
receive one copy of each message.
5.7 I've stopped getting mail
Sometimes mail takes a while to reach you. Check first with your systems
people to see if they are aware of any network problems. Otherwise, it
could be that your address has been taken off the list because mail sent
to it has been bouncing. If mail sent to your address starts bouncing
(that is, being returned to the list owner), then after a period of a
few days, the address is taken off the list. This is routine - it saves
the network handling pointless posts, and stops the list owner's mailbox
filling up with bounced messages!
Reasons why messages bounce include disk quota being exceeded, and
(particularly in the case of commercial service providers) account
owners not reading their mail for a fixed period (often a minimum of 8
days). At other times, technical problems at your end mean your machine
will not accept incoming mail for a time.
To avoid this problem, please read your mail regularly, and keep a close
eye on your disk quota. Unsubscribe if you go away for a number of days.
Consider the List Digest if regular mail is too much to handle. If you
are removed from the list in this way, just re-subscribe when you can;
it's nothing personal.
6. LIST ACTIVITIES
A number of activities have grown up alongside the list, and a large
number of list members take part in them: you are welcome to join in,
and details are provided below.
6.1 Leeds United World-Wide-Web pages
The World Wide Web is a popular multimedia interface to the internet,
modelled around pages. Each page can contain text, images, sounds and
video clips as well as links to other pages on the internet. There are
quite a few Web pages out there devoted to Leeds United. Check out Jon's
Soccer Page for a fairly comprehensive list www.leedsfans.org.uk.
6.2 Leeds United Email Digests and archives
The number of postings made to the list each day can get as high 50 to
60, which is too much for some subscribers. To overcome this, there are
two types of digest available: the email digest from
[email protected], and the web digest.
The Email Digest is a single message containing one full day's post to
the list, sent at noon and midnight each day.
To join the digest list go to the web pages at www.leedslist.org.uk and
change your subscription settings
To see the archive go to:http://list.zetnet.co.uk/pipermail/leedslist/
or on the web at http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/
6.3 Internet Lards - the List Footie Team
The list has fielded a full side - for some reason known as Internet
Lard - for a few friendly games. The first game was arranged by Dave
Walmsley in Leeds, the second by Ade Thomson in Nottingham. Then there
was Euronet 96 where we beat Arsenal, Derby County, and Man U before
going out to QPR. Get in touch with Wiggy via http://tinyurl.com/yszhsp
for more details, including arranging matches. See
www.internetfootball.org.uk for details of the Internet Football
Association.
6.4 Meeting before Matches
Several list members make the effort to meet up before and/or after each
match, home and away. It's always good to put faces to names, and really
get to know people rather than be limited to electronic mail
impressions. By all means come along.
Increasingly, meets also occur for televised games, at various locations
round the world. Recent gatherings have taken place in Oslo, London,
Brussels, Munich, and Dublin. Such events are usually discussed on the
list, so keep an eye out - and if you don't see anything relating to
your locality, then ask about it on the list, or even arrange something
yourself.
After home games, some occasionally end up in the Imperial (from the
ground head northish-east for the City Centre, go up the hill alongside
the M621, turn right at the City Evangelical Church traffic lights, and
keep walking up the hill till you get there). Often other arrangements
are made before the match as well.
Meets for away games are usually arranged on the list a few days
beforehand; again, keep an eye out for mail on the subject. If you know
of a suitable away game pub where we can meet, by all means suggest it
on the list, and provide directions. Don't wait for someone else to
propose something!
6.5 Internet Relay Chat (IRC)
Live commentary of Leeds matches is usually broadcast on match days from
the official Leeds United web site. For those who aren't able to use the
official site there is an alternative way to keep up with the action - IRC.
6.5.1 About IRC
Internet Relay Chat (IRC) is a system that allows many people, connected
to different servers around the world, to hold a group
conversation/discussion in real-time. By connecting to the #leeds
channel on IRC, you should still be able to follow the game as people
with better RA reception (or those who are able to listen to Radio Leeds
but for some reason aren't at the game) relay the match commentary.
6.5.2 IRC Clients
Although you can use IRC with a basic telnet client and a character
terminal, there are several IRC client applications that make it much
easier to use.
Check out http://www.mirc.com/ and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IRC
6.5.3 Connecting to IRC
Once you have successfully installed and started your IRC client
software, you need to connect to a server (several clients will offer
you a list of servers to choose from). The #leeds channel runs on the
Undernet servers, so pick one of those servers (e.g.
london.uk.eu.undernet.org) and a TCP/IP port number to connect to (IRC
servers usually run on ports 6666-6669: 6667 is usually a good choice).
If your IRC client doesn't come with a list of servers, the mIRC home
page contains a comprehensive list of servers, which networks they are
on and TCP/IP port numbers. Generally it's best to choose a server as
close to your location as possible to minimise network latency.
6.5.4 IRC Nicknames
You'll also need to choose an IRC nickname for yourself - the name that
will appear next to any contributions you make (so make it short). Some
list regulars on IRC are OzPete (Peter Castlehouse), OEBL (Oystein),
KiwiKev (Kevin Clarke), Nige (Nigel Sykes) and Dr_Gary.
6.5.5 Once you are connected to a server, you need to join a channel
(there are several thousand). You could try scrolling through a dropdown
list that most clients will present you with, but it's easier just to
tell the IRC client software to join #leeds (note that case IS important
- attempting to join #LEEDS or #Leeds won't do you much good).
6.5.6 Using IRC
The channel is only generally populated around match times, with people
turning up up to an hour before kick-off and leaving in the half hour or
so afterwards. If you join the channel and there's nobody there, make
sure you're connected to an Undernet server, make sure that you've got
the channel name right - and if you have, just wait for a while - you
should have company shortly.
If you get really bored waiting, you can always join the #funfactory
channel as well, and watch how others communicate! But beware, most
channels are uncensored and therefore open to abuse.
A word of warning/advice: we are Leeds and proud of it. We invite any
like-minded person to the IRC channel to participate. We do however
police it well, and fans from opposing teams, whilst welcome, must
behave accordingly. It is after all a democratic society we live in, and
viewpoints from both sides are welcome. Abusive participants are kicked
out and banned....
7. THANKS
Many people have contributed to the list over the years, including
several wonderful list owners since our glorious founder, Gav Burnage
first gave birth to the list in 1992 - we salute you all! Thanks to
everyone who helps with the list now, the volunteers who run things, and
all the people who send mail and make the list what it is. For all its
ups and downs, this is a service a lot of people value, at home and
especially abroad - and that's down to the goodwill of all the list's
members and the volunteers who give of their valuable free time to make
things happen. Thanks to one and all!
_______________________________________________
the Leeds List is an unmoderated mailing list and the list administrators
accept no liability for the personal views and opinions of contributors.
Leedslist mailing list
[email protected]
http://list.zetnet.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/leedslist
www.leedslist.net
