I'm working on this.. please hang on. My method does not limit the travel to
the number of starts desired. So a 7 start 3" pitch is fine. 3" being normal,
7 being way out of the park if you consult Legacy's charts. Your might
introduce errors from memory and having to know I have to turn to 257.13
degrees of the fifth index since there is no detent on you indexer the degree
ring becomes your guide. I've been down that road and unless I have a chart in
front of me I got confused on too many parts and ditched the idea. For what
it's worth, I have a degree wheel on my standard index plate that I don't use
that often. I came up with another idea to track the indexes, but Curt came
up with the ultimate dummies version. Like I said, I'm working on writing it
back up, showing some pictures and try to make it simple and clear.
-Tim
----- Original Message -----
From: 'joe biunno' via Legacy Ornamental Mills
To: legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com
Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2014 10:44 AM
Subject: Re: indexing accessory completed
okay, i must be missing something here...is everyone assuming that to achieve
a certain number of indexes( let's say, 5, for example), you set up your gears
to produce a 5 pitch?...that seems to be what i am seeing in everyone's
post...but what if you want a 7 1/2" pitch, with 12 cuts/indexes?...the leads
crew method does not work in that instance...and as tim pointed out, you can do
the "eyeball" thing when you do have an index that just does not work with the
pitch method, but what i have laid out eliminates all of that...pick any pitch
you want, choose any number of cuts that will best suit the diameter of your
workpiece, choose the router bit that will produce the desired cut and away you
go...this goes back to what i had mentioned before of which way to produce a
piece...do you start with the router bit and work forward or do start with the
design/drawing and proceed from there...we have always begun from a drawing,
calculate the pitch( or use the pitch that is the closest to the desired
pitch), determine the number of cuts, then find,make or modify a router bit to
suite the job at hand...when you are doing your own piece, whether it is for a
piece of furniture(like a leg,for example) or perhaps a walking sticking,
certainly you can tweak the design whatever is necessary to suit the indexing
method...but the grizzly indexer simplifies making all those
decisions...although i can see it being a bit pricey, especially if you bought
a legacy for $1200...$300 for an indexer(not counting your labor) can be
illogical...but not if you are running a business,which i am...and @
tim...definitely getting a headache reading the last part of your
post...LOL!...if i had to go into the shop and start explaining those numbers
to the men, i would certainly get "this guy is nuts" kind of
reactions...LOL...looking forward to anyone's suggestions,ideas,comments,
etc....many thanks...joe
On Thursday, May 29, 2014 12:00:18 PM UTC-4, Tim wrote:
3, 5, and 6 starts can be done on the standard machine. as well as 10. I
really need time to consider this before I saw anything since spirals are not
my main thing. This is turning into a challenge that I can't back down from.
I think Joe has a point about the pitch of the leadscrew influencing the number
of starts but I recall my method being unlimited. I have to find out. It was a
simple method knuckle draggers can work out since I am one!
Curt, mikes version I'm not convinced could answer the call to all of Joes
numbers like the 7, 9 and 11 or 13 starts. Primes are the odd balls and I
think mike would say to just fudge it with a decimal of crank after each one,
but I'd be looking for more precision, and I think Joe has high standards as
well. We don't have the pitches he is looking for. For the record as far as I
understand from my study of Mike's system there are
,3,4,5,6,8,9,10,12,15,16,18,20,24,30,32,36,40,48,54,60,72,90 pitches with the
standard gear set. Missing would be the 7, 11, 13, you can see.
I could make a gear set that would produce the odd pitches. It's time to
get nerdy. According to my private chart, you could only get a 7.2" pitch
using any of Legacy's and my custom gears. That would be a 25 tooth gear. A
17 tooth gear gets 10.90", not 11. Then it jumps to 11.25" using an 18 tooth.
27 gets you 13.333" but that's not good enough. But still we are depending on
a pitch to provide a number of starts. I think my version with a small next
step no harder than rotating the crank would work fine and be accurate. I
really need to test it before I go any farther.
Reference for study
http://artscopes.com/legacyornamentalmill/tools/pungs_index_method/pungs_index_method.html
You're making my brain hurt and I'm writing too much without really
thinking, but it's what this group is for.
I just thought of a close to no math method for odd balls. I'll post it
under a new message.
-Tim
----- Original Message -----
From: 'joe biunno' via Legacy Ornamental Mills
To: legacy-orna...@googlegroups.com
Cc: noki...@msn.com
Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2014 5:24 AM
Subject: Re: indexing accessory completed
curtis...do not want to sound like a broken record myself...i did see the
videos and mike's technique is a great time saver, but it cannot do odd ball
divisions...great for 2,4,8, 12 or 16...cannot do 3,5,6,7,9,11...granted, these
are rarely done but the point of setting up the indexer is to make it extremely
user friendly with the added benefit that it can quickly and easily do all the
common indexing divisions and the odd divisions as well...but my main
motivation in doing all of this is to make it user friendly, so anyone with
minimal woodworking experience can begin to do ornamental milling work with not
a great deal of instruction...thanks for the reply...joe
On Thursday, May 29, 2014 6:02:03 AM UTC-4, Curtis wrote:
Hello Joe
I dont want to sound like a broken record.
but did you see Mike Pungs videos on gear indexing and carrage travel
indexing. those two videos make the hole set-up of indexing plates and moving
the carrage to a new location for roping into a simple ABC type of problem. Yes
there still is some math, but there is not need for other jigs or tools to get
even those odd parts done more easly.
I have to get to work now.
I wish you luck on your new mod. I hope it works out well for you.
Have a great day.
C.A.G.
----- Original Message -----
From: 'joe biunno' via Legacy Ornamental Mills
<legacy-orna...@googlegroups.com>
To: legacy-orna...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Thu, 29 May 2014 05:34:32 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: indexing accessory completed
tim...the reason i am not using the plates i showed a photo of
previously is those plates are from the other twist machine(the killinger) i
have been using for the past twenty years or so...i did not want to bust up
that machine, even though i do not plan to use it in the future..is that
machine possibly worth something?...maybe...but the better reason as to why i
went with the grizzly indexer is i can do any number of divisions with the
indexer while with the plates, i was limited to the number of holes we drilled
into the plate...now the odds of ever using some obscure indexing number are
extremely great, but i will have that capability with the indexer,
regardless...my intentions on how to use this are straight forward...basically
for doing reeding or fluting work on poles, finials or furniture legs...whether
it be straight or spiraled work(yes, straight work is easily accomplished with
the legacy indexing plates, but if the indexer is on the machine, why not just
us it)...the indexer simplifies things to a great degree...and also to keep in
mind, is that i am delegating this work to others(after a quick usage course),
so keeping it simple is in my favor...the method everyone seems to use(moving
the carriage) seems a bit complex, especially if i have to explain it to
others...and it still only works in regards to numbers that work with the lead
screw(four revolutions per inch)...if you need a 5,7,9 or 11 repeat, for
example, it can't be done without some guess work on the part of the
operator...with the indexer, it is simply done by using some mathematics...if
you need 5 cuts, for example, you start at 0 for the first cut, then index to
72 for the next cut, then 144, and so on...i am a bit surprised that legacy
didn't seem to address this situation...they did so well with the other nuances
of the machine...anyway, i'd like to hear your thoughts on the subject...thanks
for the reply...joe...p.s. working on the tailstock mod, but hit a little
snag...working it out...more to follow
On Thursday, May 29, 2014 4:18:20 AM UTC-4, Tim wrote:
I've got some thoughts on this, but I need a while fully understand
why you are doing this method instead of the index plate you originally showed
us. All I thought was needed was a scaled down version. I'd love to hear how
you are going to use this. I might have some suggestions, but most have been
written in the group already.
-Tim
----- Original Message -----
From:'joe biunno' via Legacy Ornamental Mills
To:legacy-orna...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2014 2:11 PM
Subject: Re: indexing accessory completed
one more tweak to this set up...need to cut off,grind/shape and re
weld that flat lever, so it follows the curvature of the indexing base and then
will not interfere with the y-axis router carriage
On Tuesday, May 27, 2014 4:01:27 PM UTC-4, joe biunno wrote:
completed the indexer...not too many surprises in the
process...total investment was $300, give or take...labor took about 12
hours...there are 24 indents built into the grizzly indexer( item #
H7592)...press the spring loaded lever a bit and you can index to any 15 degree
indent(total of 24)...use the locking lever if you want, but the spring in the
lever is strong enough to keep the degree setting without worry of it slipping
out...or do the math for any of the odd divisions(5,7,9,11, etc.) and use the
chuck locking lever...there is a 360 degree wheel around the base of the chuck
to make this problem free(so long as you are good at math and have a good
memory!...LOL!)...the three jaw chuck is very well machined and has excellent
tolerances...certainly good enough for woodworking...cut off the #2 mortise end
of the legacy drive center and used the remaining hub to lock into the chuck so
i can still use the legacy drive plates...there is a shaft collar lock at the
end of the faceplate to lock the piece to the legacy headstock nose...but you
still screw the unit onto the legacy 1"-8 thread(the face plate is threaded, a
local purchase), then lock it down...we drilled and tapped 4, 1/4"-20 holes
into the back of the chuck/indexer that were in alignment with the holes in the
faceplate...we also trimmed as much metal from the indexer as we could to
reduce the overall weight, which comes in at 14 lbs....you loose the #2 morse
taper in the legacy headstock with the indexer in place, but i can live with
that(the hole through the indexer is 19/32")...indexer will add about 5" to the
length of the headstock nose, no issues on my machine,LOL...overall, very
pleased with the piece and what it can do and how it can simplify indexing
tasks when doing spiral work...comments and suggestions are welcome...onto the
next mod!...joe
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups "Legacy Ornamental Mills" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
send an email to legacy-ornamental-mills+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to
legacy-orna...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/legacy-ornamental-mills.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups "Legacy Ornamental Mills" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
an email to legacy-ornamental-mills+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to legacy-orna...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/legacy-ornamental-mills.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"Legacy Ornamental Mills" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
email to legacy-ornamental-mills+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to legacy-orna...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/legacy-ornamental-mills.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"Legacy Ornamental Mills" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
email to legacy-ornamental-mills+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/legacy-ornamental-mills.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"Legacy Ornamental Mills" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email
to legacy-ornamental-mills+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to legacy-ornamental-mills@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/legacy-ornamental-mills.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
