Hi, I have read the lawyer notes on our use cases
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Open_Data_License/Use_Cases and I am very concerned about a few of them; in fact so concerned as to say that if this cannot be clarified further then the license is going to fail. (In some cases the lawyer's response reads like "I don't understand this, please explain" - direct question to the license team: who of you has done this, or is planning to do this, or are we simply ignoring the cases where the lawyers did not understand it first time? We cannot possibly ask people to vote based on a document where our legal counsel said "sorry I cannot answer this", can we?) My major concerns are, at the moment: "Including OSM data in a hand-made map" --------------------------------------- In this use case we look at a graphic designer who makes a map using something like Acrobat, and my assumption until now was that while any improved OSM data has to be shared back, the Acrobat file - roughly speaking, anything that comes *after* the rendering stage - will be the Produced Work that need not be shared. The legal counsel now says something else which is neither flesh nor fish. We need to clarify this once and for all: Where exactly in the following typical rendering chain does the thing cease to be a database in our definition? * download (section of) OSM data * make changes to OSM data * render OSM data into vector graphics format (say SVG) * make changes to SVG file (say using Inkscape) * render SVG file into bitmap * make changes to bitmap If this is not a question that a lawyer can answer, then it is us who need to give this answer, and this answer has to be included in anything we ask people to vote for or against - because it makes a *hell* of a lot of difference where in the above chain the "Database" ceases to exist and the "Produced Work" comes into existence. "Having to grant access to pgsql data base" ------------------------------------------- In this use case we look at someone who does nothing more than taking OSM data and rearranging it according to fixed rules, e.g. by running it through osm2pgsql. The question we face is: Does this create a derived database to which access has to be granted because of the share-alike element of the license, or is it sufficient to say "this is just the planet file run through osm2pgsql"? The lawyer's answer is: "Need clarification here. From my reading, this example would seem to constitute a Derivative Database under the ODbL." Again, is someone following this up, or do you want me to ring up the lawyer myself? If this is not clarified, then this could mean that anyone running osm2pgsql importing minutely data updates would possibly have to make available a ''psql dump of the whole planet'' for any snapshot time where someone cares to request it. This would mean that for example our own tile server could not continue importing minutely diffs because it cannot make the matching data available. It would also have serious implications for other similar services, like the CloudMade tiles. Handing out the data in OSM XML format would, if transformation constitutes a derivative database, not be sufficient; the contents of the PostGIS tables would have to be made available. This is impractical and extremely undesirable but if even now our own legal counsel is not sure and says this is likely going to be a derived database case, then I must honestly say: We haven't got very far yet. The problem with the old license, the problem we're trying to solve mainly, is that there were so many unresolved issues, that a strict reading of the license could bring down most services overnight and everyone depended on a relaxed reading. If things like the above are not made very very clear and leave any room for interpretation then the new license, again, has the potential to wreck many legitimate uses when read strictly. Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09" E008°23'33" _______________________________________________ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk