On Fri, Feb 23, 2018 at 6:05 PM, Zoom.Quiet <zoom.qu...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Fri, Feb 23, 2018 at 5:37 PM, Edward K. Ream <edream...@gmail.com> > wrote: > >> The process of *considering* embedding Leo in another IDE has been one >> of the most useful things I have ever done. I feel as if I have awoken >> from a deep slumber. Atom, VSCode, eric6 and Pycharm/Intellij are all >> superb tools. Building and using them, even briefly, has been eye opening. >> >> But embedding Leo in another IDE would be a big mistake. This posts >> explains why. >> >> This is a long post. To state my conclusions first: >> >> - Embedding Leo in any IDE would be a huge and risky project. >> - Such a project would distract us Leo devs, and burden us with endless >> support. >> - Embedding Leo would be less useful than it might seem. >> - Leo has its own strengths. Many don't translate easily to other IDE's. >> >> > WoW soooooo quickly conform these points ;-) > confirm > just 2 week, ERK rebuild IDE world idea, Sayeahoo! > > EKR <~ so sorry, i always type error abbreviation > > >> See the summary for other conclusions. >> >> *A huge and risky project* >> >> Embedding Leo in any IDE would be much harder than it might appear at >> first. At *minimum*, such a task would require an *entirely new* gui >> plugin for Leo. Such plugins have been the biggest projects in Leo's >> history. >> >> This became obvious to me yesterday while reading/reformatting the eric6 >> plugin guide. Eric6 is a pure python app, but the eric6 ecosystem is almost >> completely different from Leo's. There is likely *no* clever way to use >> Leo's existing Qt code. Everything would likely have to be rewritten. >> >> Embedding Leo in another IDE would create ripple effects that touch *all* >> of Leo's code. These ripple effects would depend on arcane details of the >> particular IDE in which Leo is embedded. >> >> > ripple effects <~~~ very right define, > appended one reason: > embedding others IDE ecosystem is hold one huge upstream into Leo's > ecosystem; > but the upstream ecosystem is out-control by ERK, > means for Leo's new feature can compatibility upstream ecosystem, > will ripple huge unnecessary work. > > >> It's impossible to know beforehand what the final design and code would >> look like. This makes such projects extremely risky. Quick prototypes won't >> significantly reduce the risk. Rather, they are likely to be wasted >> investments. >> >> *Endless distractions* >> >> Successful projects have limited focus, no matter how many devs are >> involved. Embedding Leo in another IDE would be a major, most unwise, >> commitment of time and energy for all Leo devs. >> >> Support would be endless. For example, leoBridge.py is a small module, >> but it has generated continuing and difficult issues. One of those issues >> required tricky futzing with gnx's when loading .leo files. Just recently I >> had to tweak that code again. >> >> Do we want to answer endless questions about how to build Pycharm, or >> whatever? Do we want to tell people how to *use *Leo in other IDE's? >> Finally, do we want to complicate Leo's distros with javascript related >> matters? >> >> *Expensive advertising* >> >> My dream has been to promote Leo by offering its features in other >> environments. I'm ready to say now that this has always been a bad idea :-) >> >> I've learned in the past week or so that it's (usually) pretty easy to >> download and run other IDE's. People can and do use more than one IDE. >> People know where to find Leo. Creating a Leo plugin in any other IDE >> would be an expensive and ineffective form of advertising. >> >> *Leo's strengths* >> >> In one of my first posts I said that just about everything Leo *shares* >> with Atom is inferior to Atom. But this statement was *just plain wrong* >> . Here are some common areas in which Leo excels: >> >> 1. Scripting. Most IDE's aren't scriptable at all, so technically my >> remarks don't apply ;-) >> >> 2. Plugins. Leo's plugin architecture is much simpler than eric6, and >> that's the easy case. >> >> 3. Searching. No other platform has Leo's clone find commands. etc. >> >> 4. Commands. Outline-oriented diffs exist nowhere else. etc. >> >> 5. Settings and configuration. eric6 has a nifty gui representation of >> its settings, but Leo's settings are much more flexible: >> >> - Settings can apply to individual .leo files. >> - Settings nodes naturally contain arbitrarily verbose comments. >> - Users can organize settings trees as they like. >> - Plugins can add settings just by calling c.config.getBool, etc., >> *without* adding to Leo's gui code. >> >> 6. Window system. Terry has made Leo's window system scriptable (in >> python!) and extensible. >> >> *Summary* >> >> Leo will remain a pure python app, scriptable in python. >> >> There is much to learn from eric6. I shall incorporate some of eric6's >> features into Leo's code base. >> >> Leo must have a plugin that supports Joe Orr's great work. This plugin >> will be worth *any* amount of work. Imo, this is the proper place to >> focus our time and energy. >> >> I am happy with these conclusions. They feel sane, sensible and safe. As >> always, they are provisional. We'll see how the subconscious reacts ;-) >> Please let me know *your* reactions. >> >> > only one suggest: > this paper must insert into LeoDoc, maybe as FAQ? > > > >> Edward >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "leo-editor" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to leo-editor+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to leo-editor@googlegroups.com. >> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/leo-editor. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> > > > > -- > life is pathetic, go Pythonic! 人生苦短, Python当歌! > 俺: http://zoomquiet.io > 授: http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/2.5/cn/ > 怒: 冗余不做,日子甭过!备份不做,十恶不赦! > KM keep growing environment culture which promoting organization learning! > -- life is pathetic, go Pythonic! 人生苦短, Python当歌! 俺: http://zoomquiet.io 授: http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/2.5/cn/ 怒: 冗余不做,日子甭过!备份不做,十恶不赦! KM keep growing environment culture which promoting organization learning! -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "leo-editor" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to leo-editor+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to leo-editor@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/leo-editor. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
