Yes, well put Sara. And, even if this future scenario were to come to fruition, what is the likelihood that it would be a viable option for low-income or the economically disadvantaged? There will still be a need and a place for public transportation.
On Thu, Apr 20, 2023 at 9:41 AM Sara Lupkas <sara.lup...@gmail.com> wrote: > Whether self driving cars become more widespread or not, we should be > encouraging mass transit over individual car usage. > > Sara Lupkas > > On Apr 20, 2023, at 8:24 AM, Benjamin Shiller <benshil...@gmail.com> > wrote: > > > Dramatically increasing housing near the commuter rail station might be a > big mistake if thinking long term. I know self-driving cars have been > overhyped, but they are coming, probably within 10 years (they already > exist and are operating in Chandler Arizona). When they do come, the > commuter rail may become a less enticing option for those who can afford a > self-driving car (or to rent a ride in one), as one can just sit there (as > on the commuter rail), but does not need to be restricted to the limited > schedule of the commuter rail or wait/face delays. And that will apply to > more people as prices come down. If this undermines ridership of the > commuter rail, then the commuter rail will further reduce service, and > possibly eventually shut down. This would force those in central lincoln > to find another way to work, stressing roads near there, especially since, > by some quick calculations, the proposed housing would add about 40% more > housing units to the town of Lincoln, all located in central Lincoln. > > Relatedly, if self-driving cars become common, and the commuter rail shuts > down, that would dramatically change the optimal location for denser > housing, both for traffic and climate reasons. In that case, the ideal > location of denser housing would be closer to major roadways (route 2, > 128). Or even better, if closer to people's work locations. > > On Thu, Apr 20, 2023 at 8:06 AM Lis Herbert <lisherb...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> I agree. >> >> I'd like to push back on the idea that you can't live in Lincoln without >> a car. We moved here in June 2016 with two young kids, and I didn't know >> how to drive. I got them around town using a bike trailer -- to camps, to >> school, to playdates, etc. It wasn't ideal, and I would have much preferred >> an electric cargo bike, but I had to get myself to and from Cambridge via >> Porter Square and inbound trains involve stairs. (It would have been too >> heavy for me to lift onto the train, and I couldn't leave it in Lincoln at >> the station for days on end.) >> >> All of that is to say that you can probably manage most, if not all, >> erranding around town with an electric or regular old bicycle, and that >> includes transporting other people, but for that I'd recommend the >> electric. >> >> If, on top of an electric or regular bicycle, people living without cars >> in Lincoln had access to a number of Zipcars, located at the train station, >> I think they could forgo owning a car altogether. (If you are wondering how >> much I drive now that I have a license, I can tell you that I have put 168 >> miles on my car since January 1.) >> >> I'd also like to push back on the idea that Lincoln can't support more >> housing. I grew up in New York City, and moved to a very small town in >> Westchester County called Bronxville when I was in 7th grade. Bronxville, >> like Lincoln, is a very desirable place to live, with a much-admired school >> system, in close proximity to the city, and served by the commuter rail. >> >> Unlike Lincoln, Bronxville has, like virtually all towns along the train >> tracks in Westchester County, a terrific commercial center >> <https://www.bronxvillechamber.org> with an impressive number of shops, >> restaurants, and services. Within walking distance of the train station, >> there are several hundred apartments, many of which are by and large much >> less expensive on a per square foot basis than single family houses in >> town. Metro-North is relied upon by most people to commute or go into the >> city since street parking is a nightmare, garages are expensive, and Grand >> Central is a treat. And (a different conversation but worth mentioning) the >> bustling commercial center and greater housing density both help pay for >> things like the school and community services. >> >> According to Google, Bronxville and Lincoln have a near identical >> population of a little more than 6,000 people. Bronxville is 1 mile square. >> Lincoln (again according to Google) is 15 square miles, of which something >> like 35% of the land in town is held in conservation. My point is that >> Lincoln, unlike Bronxville, is rural, and it is going to stay rural, >> whether we allow 10 units of housing to be built near the train station, or >> 100. And Lincoln could, I think, support -- with its similar population, >> both size-wise and socioeconomically -- at least half a dozen more of >> something (anything!) near the train station. >> >> I draw this comparison between two very desirable and familiar-to-me >> towns with similar populations and demographics to say that Bronxville's >> mayor sort of, maybe, has a leg to stand on when she says >> <https://www.nytimes.com/2023/03/22/opinion/new-york-housing-crisis-kathy-hochul.html> >> that the state housing mandate is going to be very difficult to fulfill, >> and besides, they already have a lot of apartments. From the standpoint of >> this very late-to-drive, public-transportation-loving relative outsider, it >> is hard to believe that anybody in Lincoln is trying to make a similar >> claim. >> >> Lis >> >> >> On Wed, Apr 19, 2023 at 12:16 PM Sara Lupkas <sara.lup...@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >>> I agree. And it seems to be a chicken-or-egg scenario. I believe it is >>> more likely that the region would see better transit services if we build >>> more housing and have a greater consumer base demanding those services. I >>> don't see why the MBTA would invest in upgrades when there's no population >>> to service. >>> >>> On Wed, Apr 19, 2023 at 10:57 AM Bob Kupperstein <bobk...@gmail.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> It's not accurate to suggest that it's not possible to live in Lincoln >>>> without a car - and rather 'auto-centric' IMO. Transportation may be >>>> expensive (as is purchasing, maintaining and fueling a car) and >>>> inconvenient, but it IS possible. There are and have long been people who >>>> commute to work on the commuter rail - and most necessities are available a >>>> couple of stops away in Waltham. >>>> >>>> Many hourly and low-wage workers face significant transportation >>>> hurdles and excessive commuting times living in/around the greater Boston >>>> area. Compared to that, the cost/inconvenience of depending on the >>>> commuter rail (as it is now) looks significantly different. >>>> >>>> When considering the appeal of housing near our transportation hub, we >>>> need to look at it through the lens of those with significant housing >>>> and/or transportation challenges, rather than current town residents. >>>> Again, IMHO. >>>> >>>> Suggesting that rail improvements must come first is just a smokescreen >>>> for delay, delay, delay. >>>> >>>> -Bob >>>> >>>> On Tue, Apr 18, 2023 at 9:19 PM Robert Ahlert <robahl...@gmail.com> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> If this vision came to pass, especially 10 to 30 minute electrified >>>>> service into and through Boston to other regional locations, then we would >>>>> have a modern system which could coax folks out of their cars. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> https://commonwealthmagazine.org/transportation/moultons-ambitious-expensive-and-enthralling-transportation-vision/ >>>>> >>>>> Until then, I think it is really unfair to be forced to build housing >>>>> when the current MBTA service does not make it possible to live in Lincoln >>>>> without a car. We will just end up with more cars and same train service. >>>>> Maybe it will be worth it by 2050? >>>>> >>>>> Rob A >>>>> -- >>>>> *Robert Ahlert* | *781.738.1069* | robahl...@gmail.com >>>>> -- >>>>> The LincolnTalk mailing list. >>>>> To post, send mail to Lincoln@lincolntalk.org. >>>>> Browse the archives at >>>>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/. >>>>> Change your subscription settings at >>>>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln. >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>> The LincolnTalk mailing list. >>>> To post, send mail to Lincoln@lincolntalk.org. >>>> Browse the archives at >>>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/. >>>> Change your subscription settings at >>>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln. >>>> >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> *Sara Lupkas* >>> >>> -- >>> The LincolnTalk mailing list. >>> To post, send mail to Lincoln@lincolntalk.org. >>> Browse the archives at >>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/. >>> Change your subscription settings at >>> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln. >>> >>> -- >> The LincolnTalk mailing list. >> To post, send mail to Lincoln@lincolntalk.org. >> Browse the archives at >> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/. >> Change your subscription settings at >> https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln. >> >> -- > The LincolnTalk mailing list. > To post, send mail to Lincoln@lincolntalk.org. > Browse the archives at https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/ > . > Change your subscription settings at > https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln. > > -- > The LincolnTalk mailing list. > To post, send mail to Lincoln@lincolntalk.org. > Browse the archives at https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/private/lincoln/ > . > Change your subscription settings at > https://pairlist9.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/lincoln. > >
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