Great summary Robert and very true. In the case of one shop because z/VM was costly and a pain to manage, meaning the Linux folks could not easily use it to provision Linux guests, the project was killed and moved to x86.
With IBM now introducing KVM for z I am hoping this will open the door again. X86 folks can have a familiar interface to provision and manage z/Linux images. Also with IBM porting a large amount of popular software packages like Chef, GO language, Docker, and Mongo DB to z/Linux one can hope z/Linux will get a jumpstart. Of course as the saying goes "once bitten twice shy". So time will tell ,,, will Rockhopper and Emperor go the way of zBX and slowly fade into obscurity? Regards, James Huckert -----Original Message----- From: Linux on 390 Port [mailto:LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU] On Behalf Of Nix, Robert P. Sent: Friday, March 18, 2016 8:16 AM To: LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU Subject: Re: How many shops... ? ³Once it¹s up, linux is linux²Š Right up until you want to install some piece of software. Unless you have the source, then linux is x86, or linux is arm, or linux is z. This is the main issue we ran into in getting acceptance of Linux on z here, and which ultimately led to its death. Far too many of the things that people wanted to install were from vendors who supplied the binary packages, not the source. Our policy for a long time was ³Linux on z first, until you prove you can¹t go there². Unfortunately, better than 50% of the projects easily proved that they couldn¹t go there. SO, after a long period of frustration, management came to the conclusion that Linux on z was not a viable platform, and we were directed to convert the remaining images to x86 and shut down zVM. There needs to be wider acceptance within the software vendor community for Linux on z (and / or Linux on ARM, Linux on PPC, Š, Linux on things beyond x86). The problem is that the vendors can go to HP, or Best Buy, and buy an x86, but they have to work to get an ARM or a PPC, or a Z. Most aren¹t willing to make the effort to collect these platforms, and aren¹t willing to invest in a Z system at all simply to test their product. So yes, Linux runs on anything, from a postage stamp sized ARM system to the mighty Z. But in the case of Linux on Z, unless cost effective, small scale development boxes become available (basically a commodity style machine that could run a small load with a modest amount of disk, but using the Z instruction set and configuration), I don¹t see how a large scale wide range acceptance will occur. We tried it. We frustrated management, and were ³punished² for it, being "banished" to the Windows group for 5 years, where the x86 mantra was ingrained into us. As long as there¹s a huge price gap between the largest x86 based server and the smallest Z system, software vendors won¹t take the leap. And without software, a computer is just a brick. -- Robert P. Nix | Sr IT Systems Engineer | Data Center Infrastructure Services Mayo Clinic | 200 First Street SW | Rochester, MN 55905 507-284-0844 | nix.rob...@mayo.edu "quando omni flunkus moritati" On 3/17/16, 6:50 PM, "Linux on 390 Port on behalf of Rick Troth" <LINUX-390@VM.MARIST.EDU on behalf of r...@casita.net> wrote: >On 03/14/2016 11:29 AM, Ambros, Thomas wrote: >> To start to contest the perception that Linux on system Z is a >>'one-off', where would one find out for themselves roughly how many >>shops in North America are running production implementations of Linux >>on system Z and what proportion of all zSeries sites that might be? > >Might help to instead contest the perception that a "one-off" is >somehow bad. >Linux runs on z and it runs on PCs and it runs on ... > > * ARM (your smart phone), not necessarily Android > * PPC (IBM RS/6000 or even older Apple servers) > * MIPS (your home router and other embedded devices) > * Itanium > * HP PA-RISC > * SPARC > * Alpha > * M68K > > > ... and at least a dozen other architectures I've never seen or heard >of before. Most of these are "one-offs", unless you're invested. So >perception is all about perspective. (Forgive my tone if it sounds >snippy. Am trying to leverage your verbiage, not pick on it.) > >Might help to instead contest the perception that Linux on z is somehow >not Linux. Most of the list, not being PC hardware, are quirky to boot. >But once they're up, Linux is Linux. > >The advantage of z hardware is significant. But I figger you already >know those bullet points. > >You are not alone in the fight to get your shop to warm up to zLinux. >Hang in there! > >-- R; <>< > > > > >---------------------------------------------------------------------- >For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send >email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or >visit >http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 >---------------------------------------------------------------------- >For more information on Linux on System z, visit >http://wiki.linuxvm.org/ > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- For LINUX-390 subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@vm.marist.edu with the message: INFO LINUX-390 or visit http://www.marist.edu/htbin/wlvindex?LINUX-390 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- For more information on Linux on System z, visit http://wiki.linuxvm.org/ ________________________________ The information in this Internet Email is confidential and may be legally privileged. 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