Linux-Advocacy Digest #346, Volume #26 Wed, 3 May 00 00:13:08 EDT
Contents:
Re: The Dream World of Linux Zealots ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Is the PC era over? ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Dvorak calls Microsoft on 'innovation' (petilon)
Re: Are we equal? (JEDIDIAH)
Re: Are we equal? (JEDIDIAH)
Re: Is the PC era over? (JEDIDIAH)
Help ... ... P l e a s e ? (tom)
Re: The Dream World of Linux Zealots (Scott Babb)
Re: My question has still not been answered.Dance..Dance...Dance... (JEDIDIAH)
Re: The Dream World of Linux Zealots (JEDIDIAH)
Re: The Dream World of Linux Zealots ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Introduction to Linux article for commentary (Paul)
Re: which OS is best? (Leslie Mikesell)
Re: Is the PC era over? (Andrew Carpenter)
Re: Are we equal? (Jim Richardson)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: The Dream World of Linux Zealots
Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 02:56:30 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
[snippo grande]
> Windows is a much, much better choice.
No, it isn't. I tried it, it didn't work. And it cost too much, and
there was no support. Besides, the manufacturer has been found guilty
of violating the law, and I don't support lawbreakers.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.lang.java.advocacy
Subject: Re: Is the PC era over?
Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 03:03:49 GMT
Subject: Is the PC era over?
$DEITY, I hope so.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Dvorak calls Microsoft on 'innovation'
From: petilon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.lang.java.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 20:09:22 -0700
Jen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> I'm growing weary of this "where is the Microsoft innovation"
> crap.
Well, guess what Jen, a bunch of us are weary of Microsoft's
"freedom to innovate" crap. Microsoft has made this "freedom
to innovate" argument central to their defence. Given this
background it makes sense to take a look at Microsoft's
glorious history of innovations.
>
> Where is the "innovation" is an operating system that has it's
> roots in the 1960s (Linux).
You should be ashamed of yourself. You are comparing a product
that nets Microsoft over $10 Billion in revenue to a free product
written by hobbiest programmers in their spare time? You don't
think Microsoft should innovate Windows, just because those
hobbiest programmers have not bothered to innovate either?
Have you no shame?
>
>Innovation, schminovation.
>
My thoughts exactly. "Freedom to shminnovate", my ass.
* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *
The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (JEDIDIAH)
Crossposted-To:
alt.conspiracy,alt.conspiracy.area51,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,talk.politics
Subject: Re: Are we equal?
Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 03:10:01 GMT
On 3 May 2000 01:28:59 GMT, abraxas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>In comp.os.linux.advocacy JEDIDIAH <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> On 2 May 2000 18:01:51 GMT, abraxas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>>In comp.os.linux.advocacy JEDIDIAH <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On a closed isolated island with limited or no freedom of movement,
>>>> that's rather difficult to establish really. There are certainly
>>>> a significant a visible chunk of the population that feels it
>>>> worthwhile to risk death and imprisonment to leave.
>>>
>>>Have you been to cuba?
>
>> Are you trying to claim that the people that die trying to get
>> off the island are doing so for naught? Occam's razor doesn't
>> exactly go your way on this one.
>
>I'm simply wondering whether your knowledge is experiential or
>theoretical.
All of my inlaws are from the former Communist Bloc.
So, it's not theoretical at all.
>
>Which is not to say that theoretical knowledge is invalid mind you,
>simply not entirely useful when one wants to come up with an objective
>argument.
It's far better than "there are some of them left, they must all
just love being there" or "they're not all in the mountains with
AK-74's, so they must all support the current regime".
--
|||
/ | \
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------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (JEDIDIAH)
Crossposted-To:
alt.conspiracy,alt.conspiracy.area51,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,talk.politics
Subject: Re: Are we equal?
Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 03:11:45 GMT
On 3 May 2000 01:30:05 GMT, abraxas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>In comp.os.linux.advocacy JEDIDIAH <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>>>How does Occams razor feel about the fact that the vast majority of
>>>Cubans stay in Cuba? The most likely reason is that most people dont
>
>> ...as they do in China, Albania and did in the Soviet Union.
>
>I see that you have probably not been to cuba. It *is* possible
>for an american citizen to travel to cube; I would highly suggest
>it. It may be a little different than your assumptions.
You could go to Moscow and see the 'nice furry side' of the
Soviet Union in 1984 too. You could do the same today even.
--
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------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (JEDIDIAH)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.lang.java.advocacy
Subject: Re: Is the PC era over?
Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 03:12:25 GMT
On 2 May 2000 23:17:42 GMT, Terry Sikes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
>Chris Kelly <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>>>[pearls of wisdom snipped]
>>
>>I sure hope you're right, Petilon. Like Scott and Larry, I don't think
>>most people should have to bother with computing issues. Instead,
>>almost everyone should have an NC connected to a central server which
>>is managed by a team of white-lab-coat clad experts, who shall dole
>>out computing power only to those deemed worthy, just like in the good
>>ol' days.
>>
>>The massive democratization of computing power over the last two
>>decades truly disgusts me. Windows98? Let them use a VT102!
>>
>>OTOH, as I suggested to you earlier, perhaps you should take a day
>>trip to King City, or Fresno, or better yet Garberville (pick up a
>>couple burls for me, please) and see how normal, everyday people use
>>the computing power which you and your buds would love to take away.
>
>Moving toward more headache-free computing doesn't necessarily entail
>losing CPU power. Witness the success of the iMac. ;-)
>
>"Dumb terminal" computing will never return - 3D games are too popular.
>(For that matter, fast CPUs are too inexpensive.)
Game consoles are pretty close to dumb terminals...
--
|||
/ | \
Need sane PPP docs? Try penguin.lvcm.com.
------------------------------
From: tom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Help ... ... P l e a s e ?
Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 03:09:44 GMT
(also posted to alt.linux)
There seem to be a lot of people who post here to defend Linux. Maybe
one or two of you will be willing & able to give me a hand at
installing it. Everyone ignored me in the comp.os.linux.setup group
(or didn't know the answer), so I'll try this here.
I've tried to install two versions of Linux that I got from CheapBytes
(the download version Corel and Caldera OpenLinux 2.3) on a P266
w/128ram, but I haven't had any luck at all. I'm hoping someone here
can help.
1. First Caldera...
I set up a 2G partition on my C: drive(8.6G) for linux using fips, and
formatted the partition so that Windows also recognizes it.
I first tried the Winsetup option with Caldera, where it boots into
MSDOS, then runs the install routine. It freezes with the message that
it can't mount root, or something like that.
So I next tried the floppy install option. This gets to the point
where the Tetris clone game comes up to entertain you while the
installation is in process. I've heard that you DO NOT play the game
or install will freeze up. However, the install didn't seem to be
doing anything anyway. I waited about 10-15min, but nothing seemed to
happen (and the hd never seemed to have any activity).
2. Corel - This is kind of weird. On the install, it gets to the setup
screen, says it's loading Linux, then booting Linux, then detecting
hardware. THEN, the screen fades to black, after a few seconds, the
CDrom pops open and closed, the setup screen comes up again, says it's
loading Linux, then booting Linux,.....etc. etc. over and over.
(3.) Oh yes, I also d/l'd Armed Linux over the weekend. This installed
just fine, but the startup crashed some message like "Kernel Panic:
Cannot boot into fs ...")
I'm starting to think there's something funky about my system. Any
ideas?
Tom
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: Scott Babb <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: The Dream World of Linux Zealots
Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 03:14:53 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> First off, Linux is a great operating system and given the proper
> venue it is a good choice.
Proper venue being what? Someplace where you don't want your
OS to crash? How about an OS that interacts nicely with other
operating systems and doesn't demand that everything else in
the world conform to its "standards?" Or maybe an OS whose
source code is subject to a peer-review unlike anything else
in the world?
>
> However, to believe for a moment that Linux could replace, or even
> co-exist with Windows in the home environment is a pipe dream fantasy
> of the Linux zealots.
>
> As an example I offer up the home networking problem. The reality, and
> it is a good one, is that home networking is becoming a big reality.
> Families with children are competing with each other for internet
> time, printers, scanners and so forth. Most new home construction
> includes pre-wired Cat 5 cable as an option.
>
> Anyway how is a home network with internet connection sharing, printer
> sharing, scanner sharing and firewall set up easily under Linux?
>
> Answer; it isn't.
Um, I just put the NetMax Firewall CD into the CD-ROM and
booted it up and it installed a Linux-based firewall, router,
IPmasq system with a web-based configuration system. Not too
tough.
>
> Oh sure you can play with Samba if you happen to not have a
> Win-printer and assuming you are able to figure out how to set it up
> it might work ok. You can play with ip masquerading and ip-chains and
> so forth, entering all kinds of crap in text files and so forth.
> That is of course assuming you know what to enter. How many times in
> the Linux help system do you see "ask your system administrator"
> mentioned?
> So who is the sys admin of a home network??
YOU are the sysadmin of a home network, no matter what OS you
are running. YOU are responsible for purchasing and maintaining
hardware and software (and if you decide to buy broken hardware
like winprinters and winmodems, then it's your fault.) YOU are
responsible for understanding how things work or don't work.
YOU are in charge of security.
>
> Know how you do all of the above with Windows 98se or Win2k?
> Select internet connection sharing in help and the wizard does it all
> for you.
>
> Download ZoneAlarm for free and it works without a single amount of
> input required by the user to configure it.
>
> It simply asks you if you want a particular task to be allowed to take
> place (Realplayer accessing the internet as an example).
>
...and then you blindly assume that the program knows how
to configure itself for your particular setup. But then one
day you start wondering. You wonder why your disk is active
when you're not running anything. You wonder if your OS (which
shipped with 62000 known bugs) is secure. You wonder if they
finally got it right after so many huge security gaffes in the
past. You wonder if your Quicken and TurboTax data isn't being
vacuumed off your disk to places unknown.
> Resource sharing?
>
> Place a check in the sharing box...That's it..Wizard does it for you
> when you select "How do I share my printer"
>
> That's the way it should be.
It's easier under some Linux distrbutions, harder under others.
>
> I spent 3 weeks trying to get a network working under Linux and
> finally gave up. And another thing, the default set up is a real
> security risk even selecting Medium security under Mandrake. FTP,
> Telnet and other ports were wide open.
[Here, boys and girls, is the crux of the biscuit: Onebyte had
a problem setting up a Linux network at home. At least he got
enough of it running to figure out what ports are open in
Mandrake's medium security setting, though.]
RTFM. Medium security isn't what you want for an Internet host.
Medium security offers a reasonable level of security on an
internal network, BEHIND A FIREWALL.
>
> Sorry Linux Zealots but you should read more of the the Linux
> install/set up groups to see how many folks have had it up to their
> ears with Linux and more will follow.
>
> Take off the rose colored glasses and look into the world of reality
> for a change. Linux is certainly improving, but it isn't even close to
> Windows.
Fortunately Linux is running as fast as it can in the other
direction, so it isn't likely to get "close to Windows" any time
soon. Proprietary, buggy bloatware isn't somewhere that many
people want to take Linux.
>
> Windows is a much, much better choice.
>
>
In the all-to-common situations where Windows is the *only*
choice for running many applications, you correct. And if you
are a code-generator monkey claiming to be a software engineer
and you are putting out a corpulent product whose internal
structure you don't understand, then Windows is the development
platform for you. If you never, ever, ever uninstall or upgrade
an application, then belly up to the Windows bar. If you think
that it's perfectly normal to upgrade your PC every three years
because the OS and applications have bloated to the point
where your CPU and disk can no longer service them, then take
that $400 MSN rebate and pay $800 for lousy Internet service
for the next three years.
On the other hand, if you like the idea of an OS that actually
performs fairly well on hardware that could never run Win95/98/NT,
then check out Linux. If you think that removing or upgrading
application X shouldn't make application Y suddenly choke, then
RPM or dpkg might interest you. If you want an OS that promotes
writing clean, efficient, maintainable code, then check out that
neat development stuff included with Linux. If you want a stable
OS that plays well with other systems on a network, then there's
probably a penguin (or maybe Solaris 8) in your future.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (JEDIDIAH)
Subject: Re: My question has still not been answered.Dance..Dance...Dance...
Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 03:26:10 GMT
On Wed, 03 May 2000 00:54:26 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>So again for the 3rd time, prove me wrong and show me specifically how
>much easier it is to set up:
>
>1. Internet connection sharing.
Compared to the need to download some strange new package,
even bare ipchains commands fare better.
>2. Printer/scanner sharing with Linux/Windows mixed system.
Just how do Windows boxes share scanners?
As far as Win->Linux samba print sharing, I just installed
Slackware '94 way.
>3. Firewall (software based).
It's built into Linux.
>
>Again under Win98SE:
>
>1. Internet connection sharing:
> Try help "how do I share my internet connection?" duhhhhhh
...and those steps would be?
>
>2. Printer Sharing:
> Click on Printers/Share Duhhhh again.
Like I said. This comes working out of the box with samba.
You install Linux & it's there. Mebbe you need to click a
couple of boxes in swat to tell it to use
encrypted-to-break-samba passwords.
>
>3. Firewall:
> Try Zonealarm which has been written up in just about every
>magazine and trade rag. No configuration necessary. It blocks your
...assuming that end user is lucky and well read.
>ports and informs you with a popup everytime something is trying to
>gain access to your system. You have the option of giving access or
>not. No need to type in all kinds of ip addresses although you can do
>that if you wish also.
>
>
>So how does one go about doing this easily under Linux?
>
>It's very easy to do under Windows. Not one file to edit.
Yet you can't seem to describe these processes in nice easy
steps. They're so simple, yet so hard for you to express.
Don't you have enough of those (1000*(steps)) words to describe
it all. <snicker>
>
>So how about a direct rebuttal to prove me wrong instead of all of the
>lame attempts at deflecting a direct question.
>
>Is answering a direct question too difficult for the Linux people?
BTW, the firewall and masqerade are 1 thing, not 2.
--
|||
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------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (JEDIDIAH)
Subject: Re: The Dream World of Linux Zealots
Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 03:28:47 GMT
On Wed, 03 May 2000 00:27:28 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>On Tue, 2 May 2000 22:05:56 +0200, Mig Mig <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
>>
>>OK.. we now know youre an idiot since it actually is very easy. A collegue
>>of mine that never has touched Linux managed to get a machine on the net
>>without any problems - in Mandrake 7.0!
>
>You Linvocates should really learn how to read better.
>I didn't say get a linux machine "on the net" I said, set up a home
>network, with a firewall, internet connection sharing.
Considering that the firewall is built into the kernel as
is the address forwarding, that's pretty much the same thing.
>Tell me your friend can do that as easily as running internet
>connection sharing wizard under Windows or clicking on Zonealarm.
>
>I doubt it...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
--
|||
/ | \
Need sane PPP docs? Try penguin.lvcm.com.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: The Dream World of Linux Zealots
Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 22:38:47 -0600
>>> >>Sorry Linux Zealots but you should read more of the the Linux
>>> >>install/set up groups to see how many folks have had it up to their
>>> >>ears with Linux and more will follow.
Sure...only all you brain-dead f----.
Only the chosen will remain.
------------------------------
From: Paul <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.linux,alt.os.linux,uk.comp.os.linux
Subject: Re: Introduction to Linux article for commentary
Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 03:49:50 GMT
Donovan Rebbechi wrote:>> Why would farmers want to destroy their crops ?
> >
> >They do... for Christ's sake, what does the EU common agricultural policy
> >do??
>
> You didn't answer my question. Why ? If they could sell the stuff they
> destroy and get more money for it, they obviously wouldn't want to. BTW,
> I'm not familiar with the "EU common agricultural policy", but it doesn't
> sound very pro-free market if the name is an accurate description.
Never heard of the laws of supply and demand?
The more there is of something the less it's worth.
I think because there's a fairly fixed amount of gold
that the stuff has the value that it does. Food on
the other hand doesn't suffer from natural rarity.
It sometimes needs some manmade help to keep
it's value.
OK let's say you grow 100,000 bushels of wheat.
Your neighbor Jim Bob grows 100,000 bushels too.
You go over to Jim Bob's house after your harvest
and say, "My, but I had a really good year, how about
you?". You and Jimmy compare notes. Well you both
know if you each bring all 100,000 bushels to market
then the price is going to go down per bushel. So
you each decide to let 50,000 bushels rot. Hell
rats need to eat too. Farmers aren't stupid.
Now when you both go to market you each get a pretty
good price. Actually the government of the US pays
farmers not to produce. It's called being "on the dole".
If you really want to get into farming economics farmers
live on inflation. They have to borrow in the spring to
plant. Then pay interest all through the season, so
if their crops don't get inflated during the year to cover
interest costs they're sunk!
Vicious cycle huh? The government subsidizes farmers
mainly to control inflation. Some inflation keeps the farmers
in business. You can look at it as their crops are gaining
interest in the field. A starving population is a difficult one
to tax. Too much inflation on the other hand stifles growth
in other areas. It's a very delicate balance.
If the value of food drops too low who'd produce it?
Now that'd be a really vicious cycle indeed. Food
for thought. On that note I'm gonna go help a farmer
and grab me some munchies. :)
"Live Free or Die," written by General John Stark
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Leslie Mikesell)
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,alt.flame.macintosh
Subject: Re: which OS is best?
Date: 2 May 2000 22:53:32 -0500
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>Either you have old modules from before your recompile still in
>>/lib/modules/kernel_rev and they are now incompatible because
>>of a change you made, or you don't have all the new modules
>>you need there.
>
>How do I find out? I have no idea what to do. I exactly followed the
>directions included in the kernel dir's readme.
Try to make sense out of the first error message that comes up.
Since you probably don't have anything on the machine to salvage
it would likely be easier to reinstall.
>>If you have any disk space to spare at all, I'd try to get the
>>original system working again (maybe a forced rpm update of
>>the kernel would work),
>
>How? The network doesn't work.... I'm not terribly interested in
>dragging all of it over via floppy; might as well just re-do the
>entire thing.
How did you install in the first place? If you have another
machine and NFS export the CD and the install floppy will
bring up the network, you can tell it you want to upgrade,
then hit alt-F2 (ctl-alt-F2 in graphic mode) when it starts
to scan packages you will be at a root shell with the disk
partitions mounted under /mnt. You can either attempt a
repair from this point or just reinstall to clean things
up.
>>then change your lilo to dual boot
>>a renamed copy. I think if you change the EXTRAVERSION = line
>>at the top of the kernel Makefile you would be able to build
>>a custom version of the same revision level kernel with modules
>>kept in a separate directory from the originals. This should
>>let you make mistakes without them being fatal.
>
>I'd need a bit more detail than that...
Look at the top of Makefile in the kernel source and you'll see
where the RedHat EXTRAVERSION is set, and you'll note that there
is a /lib/modules/kernel_number+EXTRAVERSION directory to match.
If you change it before you make your custom version, the
make modules_install step will build a new directory instead of
overwriting anything in the old one. Then if you copy the
stuff from 'image=xxx' down in /etc/lilo.conf and duplicate it,
changing the label= and image= to your name and your new kernel
file and execute /sbin/lilo you will be set to boot either
the old or new versions.
>The errors happen after the dmesg - dmesg is kernel errors; these
>errors happen after the rc.x inits start. dmesg was clean the next
>time I looked at it.
The pcmcia and ethernet initialization are mentioned in dmesg in
my Mandrake laptop bootup.
>>Oops, make that /etc/conf.modules. Most config files are logical
>>so I trip over the ones that aren't. The RedHat install process
>>will auto-detect most of your hardware and builds a list
>>of modules/options that the kernel tries to load at bootup. If
>>you've changed something that breaks these, you need to
>>edit it by hand or maybe run kudzu to autodetect again.
>
>I'll try enabling kudzu again; thanks.
It won't hurt to look at the file too, although sometimes the
syntax doesn't make sense unless you read through the module
code. At least you can see what it is trying to load.
>>That makes things easier, and if you were building a different
>>kernel rev you would automatically have different module directories
>>so dual-booting would work right. With the same rev you have
>>to change something to keep your modules separate.
>
>Why? They're just modules - if I need them, I load them, no? Anyway,
>I'd need you to give me far more detail on that - how would I install
>the initrd function?
I meant that you are better off without the initrd. You only need
it for the case where the driver you need to access your root
partition must be installed as a module. If you did need it, the
RedHat install would have set one up and you would rebuild it
with the /sbin/mkinitrd program after compiling modules.
Les Mikesell
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: Andrew Carpenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.lang.java.advocacy
Subject: Re: Is the PC era over?
Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 13:29:45 +0930
JEDIDIAH wrote:
> On 2 May 2000 23:17:42 GMT, Terry Sikes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >"Dumb terminal" computing will never return - 3D games are too popular.
> >(For that matter, fast CPUs are too inexpensive.)
>
> Game consoles are pretty close to dumb terminals...
In what way?
They do all their processing locally, and are rarely even connected to
the network. The Dreamcast can be dialled up, and the PS2 is touted to
have broadband support when available, but that will put them closer to
a network computer than a dumb terminal...
Andrew
[ opinions are my own ]
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Jim Richardson)
Crossposted-To:
alt.conspiracy,alt.conspiracy.area51,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,talk.politics
Subject: Re: Are we equal?
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 04:00:11 GMT
On Tue, 02 May 2000 20:21:36 GMT,
Edward L. Sandwicheater, in the persona of <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
brought forth the following words...:
>
>
>JEDIDIAH wrote:
>>
>> On 2 May 2000 18:01:51 GMT, abraxas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> >In comp.os.linux.advocacy JEDIDIAH <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> >
>> >> On a closed isolated island with limited or no freedom of movement,
>> >> that's rather difficult to establish really. There are certainly
>> >> a significant a visible chunk of the population that feels it
>> >> worthwhile to risk death and imprisonment to leave.
>> >
>> >Have you been to cuba?
>>
>> Are you trying to claim that the people that die trying to get
>> off the island are doing so for naught? Occam's razor doesn't
>> exactly go your way on this one.
>>
>How does Occams razor feel about the fact that the vast majority of
>Cubans stay in Cuba? The most likely reason is that most people dont
>want to leave. Obviously most Cubans support Castro and their
>Revolution.
Sure, it has nothing to do with being an island, or the Cuban gunboats that
turn back ships heading to the US.
All the folks in leaky tubs and lashed together rafts trying to leave are mere
figments of tv-land... sure... Why Elian wasn't even here, his mom didn't
try to leave the workers paradise, it's all a spoof...
--
Jim Richardson
Anarchist, pagan and proud of it
WWW.eskimo.com/~warlock
Linux, because life's too short for a buggy OS.
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