Linux-Advocacy Digest #352, Volume #26 Wed, 3 May 00 12:13:08 EDT
Contents:
Re: The Dream World of Linux Zealots ("Bobby D. Bryant")
Re: The Dream World of Linux Zealots ("Bobby D. Bryant")
Re: Who to blame next... ("Bobby D. Bryant")
Re: Sofware paztents and Micro$oft history ("Bobby D. Bryant")
Re: The Dream World of Linux Zealots ("Bobby D. Bryant")
Re: IBM DUMPS REDHAT!!! WhY diD it TaKE them SO lung? (Martha H Adams)
Re: My question has still not been answered.Dance..Dance...Dance... ("Mr. Rupert")
Re: Linux NFS is buggy ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Are we equal? (JEDIDIAH)
Re: Do us a favor and leave. (Was dreamers) (JEDIDIAH)
Re: My question has still not been answered.Dance..Dance...Dance... ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Linux NFS is buggy (JEDIDIAH)
Re: My question has still not been answered.Dance..Dance...Dance... (Leslie Mikesell)
Re: My question has still not been answered.Dance..Dance...Dance... (JEDIDIAH)
Re: Linux NFS is buggy ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: My question has still not been answered.Dance..Dance...Dance... (JEDIDIAH)
Re: The Dream World of Linux Zealots ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Bobby D. Bryant" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: The Dream World of Linux Zealots
Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 23:00:45 -0500
John Hill wrote:
> Thats right folks........the rest of the world is clueless....only this
> pratt
> can run a reliable Windoze network......the rest of the world hasn't
> found out how to yet.....
Maybe Micorsoft is going to hire him next time they try to convert Hotmail
over to Windows.
Bobby Bryant
Austin, Texas
------------------------------
From: "Bobby D. Bryant" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: The Dream World of Linux Zealots
Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 23:03:56 -0500
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Wanna bet MSCE-wanna-be?
Yeah, he's practicing for his exam -- trying to see whether he can recite the
answers to all the propaganda questions from memory.
Bobby Bryant
Austin, Texas
------------------------------
From: "Bobby D. Bryant" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Who to blame next...
Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 23:21:45 -0500
Paul wrote:
> Let's say that a year from now MS has been broken up, and Linux is still a
> standardless hodge-podge of sundry apps and distributions with
> marginal driver and application support.
In other words, anything that doesn't run MS Office on a Winmodem is worthless.
> Without the evil empire (Microsoft)
> to blame for Linux's lack of appeal on the Desktop,
Who says Linux lacks appeal on the desktop? I use it by choice, and I had the
choice of anything on the market. (I first eliminated Windows from
consideration and narrowed the choice down to Linux or the Mac, but in the end
Linux won over all.)
> who or what
> will be blamed next? I'll be curious to see how it all unfolds....
Who's being blamed now? People unhappy with Linux's desktop are working to
improve it, not blaming Microsoft.
Bobby Bryant
Austin, Texas
------------------------------
From: "Bobby D. Bryant" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Sofware paztents and Micro$oft history
Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 23:14:20 -0500
Erik Funkenbusch wrote:
> But even so, Microsoft has 1,227 patents in the US. These patents are for
> things such as:
And the one famously posted to slashdot,
"Door hinge with butt straps."
It's not immediately clear why a S/W company would care to file for such a
patent. Harder yet to explain it away as a defensive patent.
Bobby Bryant
Austin, Texas
------------------------------
From: "Bobby D. Bryant" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: The Dream World of Linux Zealots
Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 23:08:19 -0500
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > Windows is a much, much better choice.
>
> No, it isn't. I tried it, it didn't work. And it cost too much, and
> there was no support. Besides, the manufacturer has been found guilty
> of violating the law, and I don't support lawbreakers.
You mention 4 reasons not to buy MS products... any ONE of which is
reason enough. If MS fixed three of those reasons tonight, I still
wouldn't use their products tomorrow.
Bobby Bryant
Austin, Texas
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Martha H Adams)
Subject: Re: IBM DUMPS REDHAT!!! WhY diD it TaKE them SO lung?
Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 14:52:11 GMT
I think this child hasn't yet understood what rational discourse is.
Cheers -- Martha Adams
------------------------------
From: "Mr. Rupert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: My question has still not been answered.Dance..Dance...Dance...
Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 10:07:28 -0500
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> So again for the 3rd time, prove me wrong and show me specifically how
> much easier it is to set up:
>
> 1. Internet connection sharing.
> 2. Printer/scanner sharing with Linux/Windows mixed system.
> 3. Firewall (software based).
>
> Again under Win98SE:
>
> 1. Internet connection sharing:
> Try help "how do I share my internet connection?" duhhhhhh
>
> 2. Printer Sharing:
> Click on Printers/Share Duhhhh again.
>
> 3. Firewall:
> Try Zonealarm
4. Prevent Microsoft from snoopy around on hard drive while connected to net:
Install Linux
--
Mr Rupert
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Linux NFS is buggy
Date: 3 May 2000 15:19:43 GMT
Full Name <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
: We have an Ultra 10 running Solaris 2.7 with a SCSI DAT Drive. We NFS
: mount the users' files on a second Ultra, a Sparc 10, an old HP UNIX
: box and an old SCO Intel box so they may be tar'd to tape.
: About a month ago we introduced a Linux box (Mandrake 7.x) into the
: equation. What a mistake! The backup stops at random locations
: within the NFS mounted Linux file system. At first we thought the
: tape drive was faulty and dragged a Sun technician out to replace it.
: But the problems still recurred.
: We spent a good fortnight getting NFS on the Linux box to work in the
: first place. Now we find it's buggy.
: The irony of this is that we are now looking at using a cron job to
: use Samba to backup the users' files onto the NT box sitting on my
: desk. We are hoping that Samba (unlike NFS) works reliably on Linux.
: At this stage we are all quite fed up with this pile of crap you
: people seem to think is God's gift to the IT industry.
: No wonder they give the thing away.
Did you bother to check to see how nfs was implemented in newer
versions of the kernel?
Check http://nfs.sourceforge.net/ for the Linux NFS FAQ. They
reimplemented NFS between the 2.0.* and the 2.2.* kernels, and they are only
recently (2.2.12 and beyond) getting things more and more right. It's pretty
good now, but it's by no means a finished product.
-jeremy
--
"In the Serengeti, there is a small outcropping of rock which conceals a rich
oasis. Tucked away, hidden from the burning sun by a stone ceiling, is a
small pool of fresh water, and in this pool grow clues by the moist
thousands. See your travel agent."
-'dire wolf'
Usenet message ID<<884oql$4opa$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
+================================================================+
Jeremy Hallum, Assistant System Manager & Grad Student,
Astronomy, Boston [EMAIL PROTECTED]:::[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (JEDIDIAH)
Crossposted-To:
alt.conspiracy,alt.conspiracy.area51,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,talk.politics
Subject: Re: Are we equal?
Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 15:24:21 GMT
On Wed, 03 May 2000 11:59:24 GMT, Edward L. Sandwicheater <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>
>
>Jim Richardson wrote:
>>
>> On Tue, 02 May 2000 20:21:36 GMT,
>> Edward L. Sandwicheater, in the persona of <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
>> brought forth the following words...:
>>
>> >
>> >
>> >JEDIDIAH wrote:
>> >>
>> >> On 2 May 2000 18:01:51 GMT, abraxas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> >> >In comp.os.linux.advocacy JEDIDIAH <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >> On a closed isolated island with limited or no freedom of movement,
>> >> >> that's rather difficult to establish really. There are certainly
>> >> >> a significant a visible chunk of the population that feels it
>> >> >> worthwhile to risk death and imprisonment to leave.
>> >> >
>> >> >Have you been to cuba?
>> >>
>> >> Are you trying to claim that the people that die trying to get
>> >> off the island are doing so for naught? Occam's razor doesn't
>> >> exactly go your way on this one.
>> >>
>> >How does Occams razor feel about the fact that the vast majority of
>> >Cubans stay in Cuba? The most likely reason is that most people dont
>> >want to leave. Obviously most Cubans support Castro and their
>> >Revolution.
>>
>> Sure, it has nothing to do with being an island, or the Cuban gunboats that
>> turn back ships heading to the US.
>>
>> All the folks in leaky tubs and lashed together rafts trying to leave are mere
>> figments of tv-land... sure... Why Elian wasn't even here, his mom didn't
>> try to leave the workers paradise, it's all a spoof...
>>
>
>Are you too much of a blockhead to understand that not everyone thinks
>that communism is a bad thing?
...that's not exactly the 'stretch' that some are trying to make.
>Nobody is starving to death in Cuba, nobody has to worry that they wont
>have medical coverage in Cuba. I didnt say everyone was happy with it.
That's not saying as much as you think. It also doesn't begin
to address any other aspect of the regime.
>Obviously thats not the case. BTW US gunboats turn back those boats too.
Calling a Coast Gaurd cutter a 'gunboat' shows your obvious bias
on this issue.
>We dont live in paradise,niether do the Cubans but to assume that all
>Cubans want to leave because some have left is ridiculous.
Quite a few people on the planet seem to have this notion that
things ARE better in the US. That is what typically inspires
the influx of people there, rather than Cuba, Albania or China.
--
|||
/ | \
Need sane PPP docs? Try penguin.lvcm.com.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (JEDIDIAH)
Subject: Re: Do us a favor and leave. (Was dreamers)
Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 15:29:51 GMT
On Wed, 03 May 2000 09:10:59 -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>A person puts up a scenario and everybody attacks him. That really makes
>a lot of sense in a group that is supposed to be advocating Linux. I use
>Linux and I like it a lot, but I also use Windows and I know for a fact
>that what he is trying to do is so much easier under Windows. It is not
>as flexible nor powerful but you don't have to know an ip address from a
>mac address to do it.
>
>It would have been much more productive if the question was answered
>with the focus on learning something and flexability instead of
>attacking him for not being a Linux expert.
>
>You so called advocates should really do us and Linux a favor if you
>would simply leave this group because you are making the rest of us, and
>we outnumber you by far, look bad.
>
>Who would even want to try Linux after reading some of the responses
>given?
There are some obvious holes in this 'firewalls for dummies'
mentality. Some of those include network security, the potential
for a novice user to trash the local network and inflexibility.
(#2 is why a run a firewall at home btw)
'Scenarios' such as this get resolved all the time (even in here)
when not framed in a belligerent manner. Some of the responses
have even been more patient than this troll deserves.
--
|||
/ | \
Need sane PPP docs? Try penguin.lvcm.com.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: My question has still not been answered.Dance..Dance...Dance...
Date: 3 May 2000 15:33:08 GMT
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
: So again for the 3rd time, prove me wrong and show me specifically how
: much easier it is to set up:
It's simple.I've done it for Linux already, why would I want to do it
again, no matter how simple it's supposed to be? Remember, this "feature" is
a very recent addition to WIN98, people have been doing this in linux for
years.
Your belligerence is probably the reason no one will give you an
answer. You seem to be looking for flames with the way you have been
stating the question. Perhaps toning it down would yield a quicker answer.
-jeremy
--
"In the Serengeti, there is a small outcropping of rock which conceals a rich
oasis. Tucked away, hidden from the burning sun by a stone ceiling, is a
small pool of fresh water, and in this pool grow clues by the moist
thousands. See your travel agent."
-'dire wolf'
Usenet message ID<<884oql$4opa$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
+================================================================+
Jeremy Hallum, Assistant System Manager & Grad Student,
Astronomy, Boston [EMAIL PROTECTED]:::[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (JEDIDIAH)
Subject: Re: Linux NFS is buggy
Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 15:36:53 GMT
On 3 May 2000 14:03:50 GMT, abraxas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Full Name <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> At this stage we are all quite fed up with this pile of crap you
>> people seem to think is God's gift to the IT industry.
>
>You're not implementing it correctly. Linux is a fine workstation OS, and
>not very good for most other things.
"free Unix server" "God's gift to the IT industry"
Yup, those two are pretty much equivalent. You might have to
bang it into place for awhile but at least you don't have to
get a purchase order for it.
It aint no VMS, but then again: NT aint either.
--
|||
/ | \
Need sane PPP docs? Try penguin.lvcm.com.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Leslie Mikesell)
Subject: Re: My question has still not been answered.Dance..Dance...Dance...
Date: 3 May 2000 10:36:00 -0500
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Thank you Leslie for a sane honest answer to my questions.
>
>It's simply incredible to see some of the more rabid Linux users
>dancing and avoiding a simple direct question and then attacking the
>messenger when they have no answer, or the real answer does not show
>Linux in a completely positive manner.
>
>Some of these people would be doing Linux a big favor by NOT
>advocating it because the end result is that they are making Linux
>look bad and proving the argument that it is an operating system for
>elitist programmer types.
>
>I will let the thread die at this point.
Just keep in mind that Win98SE is a very recent product, and
not a free upgrade from any other version. Most of the
others that replied probably gave up on getting windows
to do that sort of thing at all long ago. To get some
perspective on this view, dig up a copy of Win98 before
SE was released and see how far you get without adding
third party software. Also, as I mentioned, all Linux
needs to duplicate the setup is some canned config files
so you don't have to type in the examples in the docs
yourself. While I agree with your viewpoint that a
default configuration that works for a majority of the
people is a nice touch, I also agree with some of the
others who responded that it is much more important that
you have fine-grained control for the situations where
the default does not work.
Les Mikesell
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (JEDIDIAH)
Subject: Re: My question has still not been answered.Dance..Dance...Dance...
Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 15:41:12 GMT
On Wed, 03 May 2000 12:05:02 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>What kind of an idiotic answer is that?
>
>People want to share internet connections.
>People want to share resources (printers).
>People want some kind of security protection.
>
>And people would like it to be simple to set up.
Simply isolating the subnet the LAN is on already
provides the bulk of any necessary security.
Samba comes working out 'of the box', even if you
compile it from source yourself.
Net sharing has been a 1-2 line command in linux for
over 5 years now.
>
>You are saying that this is not an important set of items?
>
>Windows makes this extremely easy and as of yet nobody has shown me
>precisely how Linux is at least as easy.
>
>A half answer like "Samba comes installed" is not an answer.
No, yours is simply a lame ass response.
"it comes built in and ready" is indeed a useful response and
one that you can't seem to reasonably counter. Samba has been
this way since before Win95 was shipping, nevermind 98.2.
>
>So again:
>
>How about an answer.
>
>
>
>On Wed, 03 May 2000 04:13:14 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Grega Bremec)
>wrote:
>
>
>>Ehm, I should suppose that nobody answered your questions for one
>>simple, yet almost obscurely absurd reason: most probably because
>>they are meaningless questions.
>>
>>To paraphrase the meaninglessness of your questions, let me use a
>>rhetorical question that will clearly illustrate what points you had
>>missed in composing a post like the one I managed to force myself to
>>write a reply to:
>>
>> How difficult is it to drive on the left side of the road outside
>> the U.K. (and their former collonies) ?
>>
>>I will unfortunately have to draw a supposal again, to conclude the
>>paraphrase in a manner oh so common to you:
>>
>> Hmm, the entire rest of the world must suck horridly, because one
>> would most instantly crash as soon as they attempted to do such a
>> nonsense.
>>
>>Do you now manage to perceive the answer?
>>
>><hint>
>> The answer is deliberately non-specific, because the whole issue
>> you exposed is, well, what one could call, non-portable.
>></hint>
>
--
|||
/ | \
Need sane PPP docs? Try penguin.lvcm.com.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Linux NFS is buggy
Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 15:44:01 GMT
Welcome to the wonderful world of Linux....
Two questions if I may ask?
Why in the world would you want to poison a professional, time proven
real Unix operating system like Solaris with junk like Linux?
How many man hours billed in dollars/hour have you spent already
trying to make this thing work?
That's the hidden part of Linux they like to ignore.
On Wed, 03 May 2000 13:39:55 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Full Name) wrote:
>We have an Ultra 10 running Solaris 2.7 with a SCSI DAT Drive. We NFS
>mount the users' files on a second Ultra, a Sparc 10, an old HP UNIX
>box and an old SCO Intel box so they may be tar'd to tape.
>
>About a month ago we introduced a Linux box (Mandrake 7.x) into the
>equation. What a mistake! The backup stops at random locations
>within the NFS mounted Linux file system. At first we thought the
>tape drive was faulty and dragged a Sun technician out to replace it.
>But the problems still recurred.
>
>We spent a good fortnight getting NFS on the Linux box to work in the
>first place. Now we find it's buggy.
>
>The irony of this is that we are now looking at using a cron job to
>use Samba to backup the users' files onto the NT box sitting on my
>desk. We are hoping that Samba (unlike NFS) works reliably on Linux.
>
>At this stage we are all quite fed up with this pile of crap you
>people seem to think is God's gift to the IT industry.
>
>No wonder they give the thing away.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (JEDIDIAH)
Subject: Re: My question has still not been answered.Dance..Dance...Dance...
Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 15:49:01 GMT
On Wed, 03 May 2000 12:14:13 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Every grandma sitting at home should have one.
>
>Get real jedi...
>
>I said easy to set up and home network....
Easy under what conditions?
Will your setup be constrained to those few conditions that
Microsoft developers accounted for? Would you want yourself
to be constrained thusly?
My LAN is fairly mundane: multiple home machines with nonroutable
IP addresses connected to a gateway with a cable modem attached.
I might add a fax server to the gateway machine. The gateway box
also has a remote scanning service.
You never did tell me how to replicate that under Windows.
>
>
>
>On Wed, 03 May 2000 05:52:31 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (JEDIDIAH)
>wrote:
>
>
>>
>> What if you don't use a serial modem? What if you'd
>> rather use the serial modem for something else?
>> What if you would rather bridge and use the upstream
>> dhcp server instead? What happens if you want to use
>> 2 NICs and isolate routable packets from non-routable
>> ones? Does Win98SE get confused if you have no modem?
>
--
|||
/ | \
Need sane PPP docs? Try penguin.lvcm.com.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: The Dream World of Linux Zealots
Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 15:50:46 GMT
In article <8ep8ga$s80$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> In article <8emusk$agm$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > > It will be YOUR kids that will have to go in circles trying to
find
> > > software that conforms to their college standards. It will be YOUR
> > > kids that will have to explain Linux to all of the other kids as
> well
> > > as teachers in their school that will most likely be running
> Windows.
> > >
> >
> > Buzz Wrong again. I do not have ANY kids and unless there are some
> major
> > canges, it is quite impossible for me to have any. Once again your
> close
> > minded Wintroll(tm) assumtions prove that you are incapable of
putting
> > forth ideas that apply to MY needs.
>
> I thought you homo types prefered MacOS.
That's *Mr. Homo* to you. I guess it's true, MS software IS the
software of BIGOTS! We Homos like only the best. Thus, we like Linux OR
Mac.
Get real troll, the only preference that is affected by being a gay man
is that we prefer MEN and that would count *YOU* out!!!
>
> Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> Before you buy.
>
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
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