Linux-Advocacy Digest #515, Volume #26 Mon, 15 May 00 12:13:06 EDT
Contents:
Re: Dvorak calls Microsoft on 'innovation' (Gary Connors)
Re: Here is the solution ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Why only Microsoft should be allowed to create software
(=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Lars_Tr=E4ger?=)
Re: Why only Microsoft should be allowed to create software
(=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Lars_Tr=E4ger?=)
Re: Why only Microsoft should be allowed to create software
(=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Lars_Tr=E4ger?=)
Re: Why only Microsoft should be allowed to create software
(=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Lars_Tr=E4ger?=)
Re: Motif Open Source? (Cybrinjn)
Re: Why only Microsoft should be allowed to create software ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Dvorak calls Microsoft on 'innovation' (Gary Connors)
Re: Here is the solution ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: How to properly process e-mail (Rob S. Wolfram)
Re: Linux lacks ("David Cueto")
Re: Linux lacks ("David Cueto")
Re: Here is the solution (Chris Wenham)
Re: Linux lacks (JEDIDIAH)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Gary Connors <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.lang.java.advocacy
Subject: Re: Dvorak calls Microsoft on 'innovation'
Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 11:00:04 -0400
in article [EMAIL PROTECTED], JEDIDIAH at
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 5/14/00 10:50 PM:
> On Sun, 14 May 2000 21:11:36 -0400, Gary Connors <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
>> in article [EMAIL PROTECTED], JEDIDIAH at
>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 5/14/00 8:12 PM:
>>
>> Here lies the poblem. Give a desktop with a set of apps in the menubar that
>> are usuable. Give a defalt configuration that works and needs NO SETUP.
>
> This exists on any common ease-of-use distribution, times two.
> It has for awhile now. It even existed to some degree before
> either GNOME or KDE got seriously rolling.
>
Where? How? Not in Redhat or Mandrake.
Not in their default installs.
>>
>> Okay. Why is Abiword's icon not on the desktop or in a menu? Why do I have
>
> Why does any intern working at any Windows or Macintosh development
> house screw up an intaller? This is strictly a development issue
> on any platform.
>
I have in 6 years of Mac use NEVER seen a single installer "screw up".
Try again.
>> to go to a prompt and type which abirword to find out where it is located,
>
> Why would you do an absurd thing like that?
>
> Stop thinking like a stupid Mac user.
>
Insults merely show your lack of ability to make a sound argument. Address
the issue and dont talk in circiles.
> You don't need to know where a binary is to run it.
Yes, Yes you do. Dropping to a prompt to lauch ABIWord is absurd. Dropping
to a prompt to launch any of those fancy apps that Gnome or KDE ship with is
equally absurd. It is a real issue. It's one of many issues wh when my mom
wanted a PC, I chose NOT to build a Linux box. I would NEVER expect her to
use it and personally, I could care less about how "free" the source code
is.
>
>> so i can use the file manager to create a shortcut on the desktop? Why did
>> Star Office outright break a fresh install of Mandrake 7.0 with default
>> configuration? Where are all those fancy apps for Gnome and KDE installed?
>
> Why do you care? Why are you obsessed with minutia? Want to delete
> them? Otherwise, it's meaningless information to a user like you.
>
You say there are a plethora of apps, I say those apps are either hidden or
break the OS, you say its meaningless. Right. Sure. You refuted me. Try
making coherent arguments, you'll get farther.
>> Why aren't they in the menu's or on the desktop? Once Linux is set up by
>> someone who has done it before, it can be used as a desktop? Personally, I
>
> Any time I've ever installed GNOME or KDE from a tarball, rpm or
> through and installer a complete enviroment was deposited on my
> system. While I'm not a Mandrake user, I certainly can't imagine
> Mandrake 7.0 being too much different than Bughat 6.2, 6.1 or 6.0
> in this respect.
>
Never tried downloading the tarball, although I thought about it. I assumed
it would be more up-to-date, and quite possibly more complete. Only thing
is, if it takes that much work to get my OS to function properly, then I
don't want that OS.
Btw, What the hell is Bughat? Is it some nick for RedHat?
>> could care less about finding out what was installed, where it went, and how
>> to put it in a menu. To me buying an OS is not a political issue as it is
>> with many OSS advocates, its a pratical issue. Gnome, although feature
>
> It's obviously a political issue to you, trumping up this bullshit.
>
You have yet to deal with a single issue I've raised. You resort to name
calling, tell me that the problems are small, or that its all irrelevent.
Exactly what bullshit have I "trump(ed) up"? Where exactly am I wrong?
>> rich, default installs to give the impression it has very little features.
>> The same can be said about KDE.
>
> So does any desktop OS actually. Where have you been?
>
Using Mac OS where things work the first time.
> Although, KDE and GNOME both come with enough applets to keep a
> shill more than busy enough.
Hidden from the user. If the user can't find it on their own, then it might
as well not be there.
>>> ...a good argument for having a wider selection of choices if
>>> there ever was one...
>>>
>>
>> A good arguement for standarization on a suite of desktop apps and limited
>> and easy to use GUI controls with "power user" features NOT in the default
>> install, but as an option
>
> No, twits like you are still the best argument for variety.
>
Name calling shows your complete lack of ability to make a coherent
argument.
> Twits like you leaping in the general direction of Microsoft
> is why Linux was written in the first place. The market as it
> was, driven by twits like you, didn't address the needs of a
> great many of us.
> .
Forgive me, English is my native language. I can't parse this insult.
One part of it seems peculiar especially. "Twits like you leaping in the
general direction of Microsoft" problem is I have never owned for home use
a Microsoft Operating system. Well, actually that PC I got, but I formatted
the HD as soon as I got it home. Guess that sort of counts.
What needs do I not address? How are my needs different from your needs?
Are you still functioning in the "he is against using Linux at home, so he
is a closed source fanatic" mode? How could I be anymore clear?
>>>
>>> Then what are you doing owning one?
>>>
>>
>> I picked up a P2/266 for $200 with montior. Who could pass that up? I
>> tried to install Mandrake and Redhat on it. Mandrake was the easier to
>> install of the two (by far). While trying to install those fancy desktop
>> apps, I kept breaking the installer. Tried this for days, before wiping the
>
> Funny, I've never 'broken' the Redhat installer installing
> 'fancy desktop' apps on it. Installing those 'fancy desktop
> apps' is the simplest part of the whole process actually.
>
Choose something other than the default configuration.
>> HD with a final blow, and spending my spare time turning the computer into a
>> mp3 stereo (using linux of course, as a embedded OS that requires limited
>> uses, linux is fine) that is controlled via http on a LAN with my Macs.
>> That took some time (2 months, maybe less), but was well worth it, now as I
>> add computers to my house, regardless of OS on them, I have full access to
>> my mp3s from all of them.
>>
>>>> funcality. It defalts to a unsetup OS out of the box. It has basic
>>>> functionality obsured (how do you set up that printer again? How do you
>>>> set
>>>
>>> You've pretty much demonstrated your complete inexperience with
>>> Linux whatsoever with this little bit of FUD.
>>>
>>
>> FUD, FUD. "You just keep using that word over and over, but i dont think
>
> ...because it's rather hard NOT to stumble upon the system control
> applets in KDE, GNOME or Redhat's old fvwm2 setup.
>
Where are they? How are they easy to "stumble upon"?
>> you what you think it means is what I think it means". FUD. Priceless.
>> Why FUD linux? What is there to gain? Im not advacting MS shit. Im
>
> FUD because you obviously aren't willing to even to bother to
> look for things that are quite easy to stumble upon given a
> modicum of effort. It's quite obvious that you have been judging
> Linux with a different standard than you apply to your Pet OS.
>
Same exact standard. That is why people put up with MacOS's horrid
multitasking. It works. Every time. That is why people spend $1200 on a
iMac which is a 400MHz (which is equivalent to a 400-500Mhz PC, depending on
the app) when an similarly priced and featured PC by Sony (remember Firewire
and video editing) will get you a CD-R, PCI slots, bigger monitor, etc.
People who live in the x86 world don't realize what they have been missing.
Intelligent installers, each file knows what version it is, unbelievable
level of app and file tracking (I can move my apps, files and alias's an
infinite amount of times and they will NEVER loose their association. All
this and more.
>> certainly not gonna tell a Linux user that MacOS is for them, cause it's
>> not. Hell, I LOVE the idea of OSS and hope that it might actually break the
>> MS monolopy, but it hasnt. I'm just saying that if you are going to use a
>> Open Source OS, you should NOT use Linux. Especially as a workstation and
>
> ...based on at best, ignorance and more realistically lies.
>
How am I wrong? What issues have you addressed that I have not responded
to. I can name quite a few you have ignored or responded to with insults.
>> server, there better solutions out there. No self respecting high end
>> server has Linux on it, they use FreeBSD or OpenBSD.
>
> Actually, that domain is far more likely to be dominated
> by Suns or AS/400's. OpenBSD doesn't support the kind of
> hardware that 'high end server' implies.
>
Hardware is not what makes a server "high end". Most number coming in
suggest that anything over 150Mhz x86 with 100BaseT will meet the needs of
90% of web sites. If you need more get more old computers. High end is a
use, not a hardware subset.
>>
>> Existing and easy to find and locate are two different things.
>
> Just plod through those menus. You're a Mac User. You
> SHOULD be able to sucessfully explore a menu.
I get it. You latched on to the Mac User thing, thinking its an insult.
How about this...call me a IRIX 6.5 user cause when I'm done writing this I
gonna sit down at the O2 next to me and get to work. I spend waaaay more
time in front of IRIX than I do in front of a Mac. Or, you can address the
issue rather than dismissing them as the rambling of a Mac User.
>
>> BTW, init is usually somthing that doesnt not need to be set up, being the
>> mother of all processes and all. For home use, runlevel 3 should suffice,
>> which is the default, iirc.
>
> init also includes what you run (or don't run) at various runlevels.
> This can either be broken out by specific runlevel or simply as a
> list of available services with checkboxes.
Hmm. Hard to parse. Init spans users services at startup, being the Mother
of all processes and all. Most of this is controlled with basic startup
scripts (rc.cfg, iirc). So I guess you are referencing to this.
>
------------------------------
Crossposted-To:
comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Here is the solution
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: 15 May 2000 15:09:44 GMT
In <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Joseph <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
|
|
|Erik Funkenbusch wrote:
||
|| Craig Kelley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
|| news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
|| > > Uhh.. no. It's a protocol. Why would they write an API for something
|| that
|| > > the OS already does? The point of making a different domain controller
|| is
|| > > to do it on a non-MS platform, which means that an API is meaningless.
|| >
|| > That's a circular argument. Perhaps the word API is incorrect to use
|| > here, because it implies that an interface is explained to the
|| > programmer. How about this claim:
|| >
|| > Microsoft intentionally obfuscates internal calls to lock people
|| > into using windows.
||
|| That is not the argument here. The argument here is that MS is using hidden
|| API's in it's applications that give it an advantage over it's competitors.
|
|MS now openly admits they have this hidden API advantge as part of MS's
|god given right to innovate on behalf of the consumer and it is detailed
|in their legal defense. MS calls it innovation. Gates and MS argue
|that without the apps and OS working together with hidden APIs consumers
|would be harmed.
|
|It hard for MS's stooges to keep pace with their evolving, contradictory
|stories.
But Joseph, you do have to give them credit for trying _so_ hard!
Guido
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Lars_Tr=E4ger?=)
Crossposted-To:
comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy
Subject: Re: Why only Microsoft should be allowed to create software
Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 17:07:28 +0200
abraxas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> All they had to do with be on the chinese side in the first place (and
> therefore by sheer logic, chinese) and walk to one of the manned watch
> towers which was usually under two miles from wherever one stood along
> the wall.
>
> Or they could simply hop the wall *anywhere* on the chinese side with
> one of the tens of thousands of ladders that were kept handy for such
> things.
Or they could have done it like Copperfield.
Lars T.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Lars_Tr=E4ger?=)
Crossposted-To:
comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy
Subject: Re: Why only Microsoft should be allowed to create software
Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 17:07:30 +0200
WickedDyno <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> OK... but why a "Chinese" wall?
To protect the MS Empire from the Barbarians led by Bill Gates.
Lars T.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Lars_Tr=E4ger?=)
Crossposted-To:
comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy
Subject: Re: Why only Microsoft should be allowed to create software
Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 17:07:25 +0200
Jim <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] (tinman) wrote:
>
> > In article <39179067$2$obot$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Bob Germer
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > > On 05/08/2000 at 12:25 PM,
> > > WickedDyno <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:
> > >
> > >
> > > > (Two bucks says Bob either ignores the above post or responds with
> > > > more
> > > > or less what I just said.)
> > >
> > > I will ignore anything eminating from the sewer called Cornell. It is
> > > the
> > > National Enquirer of higher education.
> > >
> > > Being a Cornell graduate just got a prospective member of our country
> > > club
> > > blackballed. That's what we think of you slime.
> > >
> > So Bob, what country club is that?
>
> The one with the bed sheets on their pointed heads?
Yeah, Katalina Kountry Klub.
Lars T.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Lars_Tr=E4ger?=)
Crossposted-To:
comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy
Subject: Re: Why only Microsoft should be allowed to create software
Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 17:07:27 +0200
Timberwoof <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> abdorbing Renault somewhere in the process. Isuzu owns Opel. GM owns an
Actually GM owns Opelsince the 20s.
Lars T.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Cybrinjn)
Subject: Re: Motif Open Source?
Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 15:22:08 GMT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Mon, 15 May 2000 13:32:05 GMT, Christopher Browne
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Centuries ago, Nostradamus foresaw a time when Donn Miller would say:
>>Donn Miller wrote:
>>
>>> http://www.opengroup.org/openmotif/intro.html
>>
>>All the ftp sites listed were overloaded. Damn, I was just about to
>>make the move from Motif to Qt or Gtk. Who knows where this will
>>lead, though... now that it is Open Source.
>
>One problem is that, despite the manifold use of the word "Open,"
>OpenMotif is _NOT_ Open Source according to the OSD.
>
>That's not me "license-lawyering;" the FAQ at the Open Group
>site states this...
>--
>When your hammer is C++, everything begins to look like a thumb.
>-- Steve Hoflich on compl.lang.c++
>[EMAIL PROTECTED] - - <http://www.hex.net/~cbbrowne/lsf.html>
You get the source. You get it free. If that ain't open,
what is?
Paul
------------------------------
Crossposted-To:
comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Why only Microsoft should be allowed to create software
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: 15 May 2000 15:38:00 GMT
In <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Joseph <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
|
|
|Leslie Mikesell wrote:
|
|| The real question here is how many companies shied away from the
|| advantages of DRDOS because of the Microsoft ploy.
|
|Here's another thought:
|http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/comment/0,5859,2559857,00.html
|
|No one wants to use MS's technology and those who do like AT&T were paid
|5 billion by MS for committing to use MS's WInCE.
Indeed. MS had to buy into AT&T to the tune of 5 _billion_ dollars in
order to win a design bid with WinCE. Some technology. Compelling, eh?
The fact that the winblows monopoly, on both OS & desktop apps, gives
MS the 5 billion to throw around is exactly what needs to be addressed
by whatever remedies Judge Jackson comes up with.
Guido
------------------------------
From: Gary Connors <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.lang.java.advocacy
Subject: Re: Dvorak calls Microsoft on 'innovation'
Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 11:03:52 -0400
in article 8fnu3p$n8g$[EMAIL PROTECTED], Christopher Smith at
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 5/15/00 12:31 AM:
>
> Given that a username and password are unique attributes of each PPP
> connection, where else would one expect to find them than in the properties
> of the object that makes that PPP connection ?
>
Double click that stupid PPP setup assistant, and it should ask you for it.
Chris, how many people do you know that have more than one PPP account and
what percentage of people who own Windows based PC's actually have more than
one PPP count?
>> Why does the network control
>> panel have that many options?
>
> Like what ?
WinBind's or whatever that never used crap is.
>
>> Windows is some ways less usuable than Linux.
>
> So is the Mac.
>
Chris, got back to C.S.M.A if you are out to Mac Bash.
>> Windows is why the tech support industry cost the US BILLIONS each year.
>> Windows is why people beleive that when a computer begins to misbehave it
> is
>> thier fault. Windows is not even worth using.
>
> Uh huh.
>
Exactly.
>>> ...a good argument for having a wider selection of choices if
>>> there ever was one...
>>>
>>
>> A good arguement for standarization on a suite of desktop apps and limited
>> and easy to use GUI controls with "power user" features NOT in the default
>> install, but as an option.
>
> I always find it amusing the people who argue that there should be a One
> True GUI but criticise Microsoft for trying to create a One True OS.
>
Never said there should be one true OS, Chris. Learn to read and try again.
------------------------------
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Here is the solution
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: 15 May 2000 15:47:35 GMT
In <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Bob
Hauck) writes:
|On Sun, 14 May 2000 16:20:13 GMT, Forrest Gehrke
|<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
|
||Bob Hauck wrote:
|
||| Uh, yeah, whatever you say. I used OS/2, liked it too, but
||| I have a hard time thinking up ways that being end-of-lifed by IBM can
||| be considered "renewed signs of life".
|
||Coming up with that old cliche proves exactly what?
|
|That OS/2 isn't a threat to Windows any more. You were saying that OS/2's
|supposed "renewed signs of life" is causing Winvocates to redouble their
|efforts. I think that to be silly, there are a number of much more
|credible threats to Windows out there than OS/2.
|
|
||IBM is issuing a new release later this year. Since I like it and you did
||too, why must I move on?
|
|You don't have to. But it is getting hard to find drivers for new
|hardware, and there isn't much new software coming out, so at some point I
|would expect that you will have no choice unless IBM really changes their
|mind 180 degrees.
|
|
||What is so compelling simply because 85% of the rest of the world uses
||Windows?
|
|I am not advocating Windows.
|
| -| Bob Hauck
Well howdy, Bob!
Just interested in knowing what you think an OS/2 user should be moving
on _to_ if it's not Windows.
Guido
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Rob S. Wolfram)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: How to properly process e-mail
Date: 15 May 2000 15:26:09 GMT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Rob S. Wolfram <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> spewed this unto the Network:
>>Christopher Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>>I already know the difference.
>
>>Then tell me, what /should/ happen when I "open" an email attachment
>>that contains a Visual Basic Script?
>
>What _should_ happen? A text editor should be spawned, showing the
>contents of the VirusBasic Script.
Precisely. Does Christopher also know that...?
Cheers,
Rob
--
Rob S. Wolfram <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> PGP 0x07606049 GPG 0xD61A655D
"The Maastricht treaty ... has been dealt, at least temporarily,
a fatal blow."
-- Des O'Malley, Irish minister
------------------------------
From: "David Cueto" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux lacks
Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 15:43:07 GMT
> Reiser FS is stable. It doesn't come with Linux, but some
> distributions (like SuSE) include it right now.
Stable does mean does not freeze, until a product has a minimun
time around, it must not be considered stable, and of course not
optimized at all. I assure you that in six months there will be notable
improvements at Reiser FS. Only now is spreading enough to be
deep tested.
> Mozilla isn't done yet, but that's coming right along. I use M15 all
> the time now.
You say "isn't done yet"; why if any commercial company says that is it
called vaporware and if it is about a GNU project ... it is coming right
along ? I find it no partial at all. I wish Mozilla success, but it has a
dark
history.
> Microsoft Office isn't open source either.
Of course. Then not each non open source is bad, isn't it ? Anyway, you
are supposing I do use Microsoft Office.
------------------------------
From: "David Cueto" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux lacks
Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 15:43:08 GMT
> Meta-journaling only, from what I've heard. Where's AIX's file
> system -- which, IIRC, is full journaling -- for NT? At least
> for Linux, it's barely possible (although I've heard no noises
> from IBM regarding this).
Why is it not possible for W2K ?
> Well, what do you think Linux is, a full-fledged, 256-processor
> system? :-) It's primarily for low-end clients -- although it
> has been ported to IBM's S390 (I don't know what that system is,
> presumably high-end iron).
For what I'had heard, I though GNU/Linux was the all in one
OS that was going to end with micro, mini, super, macro computers :-)
> Is this on Linux, or on Windows? :-)
Hmmm, thinking it well ... may be both of them :-)
> > Why if NT is as bad OS Mindcraft I, II and III (with Redhat and Linux
> >gurus around) tests gave NT winner over GNU/Linux ?
> Because NT *was* a winner over GNU/Linux. The test, however,
> was slightly biased in NT's favor. (But only slightly; it exploited
> a provable flaw in Linux, which will be fixed somewhere in 2.4.x.
> Linux still has some problems, AFAIK -- in fact, I found one
> (in dynamic loading, of all places!) yesterday, but it may be because
> my system is old.)
> Yeah, that's true, we should all use the exact same thing, with the
> exact same code -- oh, look, Windows!
It would be enough a standarized copy and paste or object sharing
among window managers and desktop environments. Perhaps a common
configuration tool and similar configuration files. And when I say copy and
paste, I mean something better than GPM ;-) Anyway, what's against
Windows interface ? In fact, a object oriented desktop, with a task bar
is a good approach for me, be it Windows, KDE, GNOME, iceWM,
fvwm95, etc ..
> With, or without viruses? :-)
Adding features does not mean adding security risks. GNU/Linux is
crying for a good offline X11 news reader to be used as desktop. If you
refer to Outlook, well, it is wonderful. Just removing security risks and
it would be a very nice base to develop an open source clone.
> Oh, you don't like fetchmail? Put it in a crontab entry.
> I just did; crontab -e.
fetchmail is not the worst of them, final user client is the worst part,
not for me, for GNU/Linux to be used as desktop.
> Yeah, we should all be using Windows 2000, instead, it's *so* much
> better and flexible and such. Right?
Not at all. If I point GNU/Linux faults, does not mean I can't point
Windows
too. Neither that I want everyone to use it.
> Netscape is working on it. And any Java solution can be decompiled,
> although I'm not sure how legal that is in the US in light of recent
> legal developments.
Java ? Is it open source ? Or does it belong to the next-in-the-list evil
company ? Anyway, I do not like Java and it miss-use resources.
------------------------------
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: Here is the solution
From: Chris Wenham <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 15:47:48 GMT
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> Just interested in knowing what you think an OS/2 user should be moving
> on _to_ if it's not Windows.
I advocate pencil, paper and slide rule for the crushing majority of
computer users.
Regards,
Chris Wenham
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (JEDIDIAH)
Subject: Re: Linux lacks
Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 15:53:20 GMT
On Mon, 15 May 2000 11:40:06 GMT, David Cueto <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Where are GNU/Linux Unicode and multithreading native support ?
>Windows NT/2K's got it since 1996. And do not talk me about
>-lpthread command line option, that's a dirty patch.
What 'gnu level' utilities under NT5 support unicode?
>
> Where are standard GNU/Linux journaling file systems ? Reiser ?
>Just starting to be used now, still beta, and at all a standard. Windows
>NT/2K's got it since 1996.
This seems to be less important to actual production work
than many MS shills let on. For desktop work, it's certainly
less cricital.
Besides, NT's journaling falls down too easily. I have colleagues
that have lost work due to crashes on NT despite that 'journaling
filesystem'.
>
> Where is full featured and plenty working NFS GNU/Linux support ?
>Solaris and SCO's NFS is by far a lot better. GNU/Linux is primary for
>client purposes.
>
> Where is UDF, USB, ISDN, ADSL decent support ? All of them are
>beta, do not support all existent devices (by far), and working with them
Just like on Win2k.
I still have a colleague who runs NT5 and can use his USB
webcam...
...if it's going to be a crapshoot, in terms
of support, you could just run another OS: Be,
MacOS, Linux, FreeBSD.
>gives you often more than a headache.
>
> Why if NT is as bad OS Mindcraft I, II and III (with Redhat and Linux
>gurus around) tests gave NT winner over GNU/Linux ?
Post factum argumentation.
C't did a much more in depth analsys of the situtation.
>
> Where is NIS+ support ? Where is an open source browser following
>all the open standards around ?
>
> Where's a little of standarization at the window managers world ? Yes,
>there are a lot of choice ... too much choice for me and too different
>choices. Why the hell don't they share things ?
>
> Where are full featured on/off line mail and news clients (console or
>X11) ?
>Having a news server and using tin with leafnode (or inn) is far from what I
>call
>a desktop solution (and by far from what I call an easy desktop solution).
Then use something besides tin. You could run Agent on a windows
box and keep the Linux machine in the closet if you wanted to.
>The
>same goes for fetchmail + procmail + pine (mutt or whatever you want).
>Kmail ? (still freezing ?)
WinDOS mail readers blow bloody chunks compared to procmail
when filtering actually. Something like fetchmail should be
fire and forget. The packaging might be a bit rough, but that's
easily enough fixed by someone with the motivation.
Someone's probably even addressed it already.
[deletia]
--
In what language does 'open' mean 'execute the evil contents of' |||
a document? --Les Mikesell / | \
Need sane PPP docs? Try penguin.lvcm.com.
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