Linux-Advocacy Digest #517, Volume #26 Mon, 15 May 00 15:13:11 EDT
Contents:
Re: Why Solaris is better than Linux (Leslie Mikesell)
Re: You people are full of shit.... ("Mikey")
Re: Linux lacks ("Mark Langsdorf")
Re: You people are full of shit.... (Darren Winsper)
Re: Things Linux can't do! (John Culleton)
Re: Things Linux can't do! ("Rob Hughes")
Re: A Blast From Oracle's Past (Re: Is the PC era over?) ("Ermine Todd")
Re: Linux lacks ("Bobby D. Bryant")
Re: Linux lacks ("Bobby D. Bryant")
Re: Linux lacks ("Bobby D. Bryant")
Re: Motif Open Source? ("Bobby D. Bryant")
Is there any money in knowing Linux? ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Linux lacks ("David Cueto")
Re: progamming models, unix vs Windows ("David Cueto")
Re: progamming models, unix vs Windows ("David Cueto")
Re: progamming models, unix vs Windows ("David Cueto")
Re: I have 4's and 5's in a Bind. (Brian Langenberger)
Re: HUMOR: CSMA has the Tholenbot... we should have the Templetonbot. (was Re: The
"outlook" for MS) (abraxas)
Re: A Blast From Oracle's Past (Re: Is the PC era over?) (Terry Sikes)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Leslie Mikesell)
Subject: Re: Why Solaris is better than Linux
Date: 15 May 2000 11:47:24 -0500
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Full Name <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>I have no idea how anyone could compare Linux to Solaris.
Easily.
>Just today I was asked to post process some output files from a Unix
>stats package. For the hell of it I hopped onto the Mandrake Linux
>box rather than using a Solaris 7 machine.
>
>First thing I noticed was that my QvtTerm kept hanging when I typed
>ctrl-c to stop a job while it was dumping text to the screen. Not
>every time mind you, just enough to be annoying. I had to keep
>killing sessions and logging in again.
What's a qvtterm and if you don't like it, why run it instead
of xterm or kconsole?
>I started using awk. Things were going well. Thought I'd try sed. I
>needed to pattern match a return character. Tried ctrl-v and hitting
>the return key.
>
>Did not work!!
>
>Simply gave the usual '>' continuation prompt as though I'd simply hit
>the return by itself. Then spent half an hour trying to work out how
>to pattern match a return without using ctrl-v.
It works here. You've gone out of your way to break 'stty lnext'.
>At this point I trashed the ever-hanging Linux sessions and switched
>to an Ultra 10. No hangs and ctrl-v worked as usual. Both were bash
>sessions.
Same here, without the Ultra..
>Next time you think about using a Linux box try sitting on a pineapple
>instead. You'll end up with the same expression on your face and you
>won't waste as much time.
What ARE you talking about? No unix-like system is going to keep
you from shooting yourself in any part of your anatomy, which
appears to be what is really going on here.
Les Mikesell
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: "Mikey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: You people are full of shit....
Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 16:55:14 GMT
[EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> beat the keyboard with a
dead rodent and out came <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>...
>I use Windows 98se everyday running a graphics workshop business and I
>never get BSOD's nor do I seem to have all of the troubles you Linux
>nuts seem to have.
I don't have that problem in Linux.
>
>I have friends in the jingle business that I work closely with and
>they also run Windows for their studios and they do not seem to have
>all of the troubles you speak of....
Why are you using Windows in a studio when a Mac is much better suited for
that environment.
>We are not anti-Linux at all, in fact we are looking forward to the
>day that we can stop paying ridiculous prices for software. However we
>have all tried various forms of Linux and quite frankly it is a
>complete joke. One guy spent nearly a week trying to get a Samba
>server going. This is completely idiotic since it is so simple to do
>under Windows.
No. Actually the guy you are talking about just doesn't know what he's
doing or has only shown the peak of his learning curve. I recently taught
my 11 year old niece to set up a share in Samba.
>Linux is a fucking joke. Really it is.
Well, Bubba, that joke runs most of the servers on the internet with Apache.
>Networking? Simple under Windows. A nightmare under Linux.
>One person tried to set up a Linux server and gave up. Reading 3 weeks
>of How TOs was a complete waste of time.
Just because he can't figure out how something works doesn't make an OS
crap. I can give a retard TFM, and they won't be able to figure out how to
set up a Linux server either.
>Call him stupid if you will but ya'll are listening to his latest
>creation every day on the radio.
Okay, he knows sound-bites, but he doesn't know beans about computers or
networking.
>In closing I wish Linux good luck because God knows it will need it.
>Linux is a hostile, user unfriendly system that no one but a true geek
>could love. In my industry, Linux is the center of many a lunch time
>joke and it will be many years before this is changed.....
Making jokes about something you can't understand is just sour grapes for
fools. It's kind of like saying that a Ferrari sucks because the plugs fowl
when you don't have the RPMs at a certain rate, etc. when it's actually
because you don't know how to properly operate it since you are used to your
Ford Taurus and expect it to act the same way.
You can lead a (L)user to a manual, but you can't make him think.
Since-beer-leekz,
Mikey
------------------------------
From: "Mark Langsdorf" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux lacks
Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 12:12:54 -0500
David Cueto wrote in message ...
>
> Where are GNU/Linux Unicode and multithreading native support ?
>Windows NT/2K's got it since 1996. And do not talk me about
>-lpthread command line option, that's a dirty patch.
Where's my free version of Window NT/2K? Linux has been
free since 1991.
> Where is UDF, USB, ISDN, ADSL decent support ? All of them are
>beta, do not support all existent devices (by far), and working with them
>gives you often more than a headache.
Where is decent USB support in Window NT? Or Win95? Heck,
I've had problems with Windows 98 USB support with 8 products on
3 seperate boxes. USB is not a mature technology, and there's some
possiblity than Linux will have v2.0 support at the same time Microsoft
does, based on the current proposed release schedules.
> Why if NT is as bad OS Mindcraft I, II and III (with Redhat and Linux
>gurus around) tests gave NT winner over GNU/Linux ?
NT has better performance at the cost of stability. The only
documented
results for uptime show NT dying for 25 minutes every 6-8 weeks, while
Linux stayed up continuously for 10 months. Which do you prefer?
> Where's a little of standarization at the window managers world ? Yes,
>there are a lot of choice ... too much choice for me and too different
>choices. Why the hell don't they share things ?
Because they don't want to. Not everyone is overwhelmed by choices.
-Mark Langsdorf
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Darren Winsper)
Subject: Re: You people are full of shit....
Date: 15 May 2000 17:19:47 GMT
On Mon, 15 May 2000 11:52:33 GMT, David Cueto <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > If you do believe what I say, thwn how can you call linux a joke when my
> > Windows kept falling over, but my Linux doesn't.
>
> By the way, have you ever played around /dev,
Yes. Unless I'm root, I can't really do anything dangerous.
> used framebuffer with
> SVGALIB applications,
I avoid SVGALIB like the plague. IIRC, it needs to be root, which
would explain a lot of things.
> nasty played with TV card or the so ?
Don't have a TV card.
> GNU/Linux
> is not un-freezable.
But you need to be root for those issues. Also, IIRC, the SVGA stuff
tends to just lock the screen, you can still telnet/ssh in.
--
Darren Winsper (El Capitano) - ICQ #8899775
Stellar Legacy project member - http://www.stellarlegacy.tsx.org
DVD boycotts. Are you doing your bit?
This message was typed before a live studio audience.
------------------------------
From: John Culleton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Things Linux can't do!
Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 17:24:11 GMT
> >
> > Don't naturally assume Linux OS never crashes on others
> > if it hasn't crashed on you. There is no bug free OS.
>
> I think the point your missing here is nobody in the world has
> experienced it and wrote about it. It's true apps die, but
> not the entire OS such as in a blue screen!
>
It is possible for an application such as Netscape through a memory leak
or whatever to freeze a Linux system. It has happened to me. There are
techniques for preventing this but they are a bit obscure. Now that
doesn't mean that Linux is not a superior operating system. It just
means that nothing is foolproof.
Microsoft has two things going for it: top notch marketing reminiscent
of IBM in the old days and a well-established applications base. Most
every commercial software maker writes for MS Windows first, and any
other OS as an afterthought. These two factors will keep MS on top on
the desktop for many years. Once you achieve market dominance then the
quality of your product doesn't matter much. I wish it were not so. But
those are the facts.
The server market is still a battleground but the current trend favors
MS. The gent who complains about the load problems nevertheless has to
earn his bread supporting MS servers. Over on comp.text.prepress the
pros of the printing industry are adapting to Micorosoft Publisher
because their customers are using it even though they agree that it is
an inferior product.
Are MS products mediocre? In my experience yes. Are they absolutely
unusable? Obviously not. Will MS continue to dominate? Probably.
But keep those cards and letter coming, folks. The debate is
entertaining and sometimes informative.
John Culleton
My Linux system at 1:21pm up 1 day, 14 hours 56 minutes, 2 users,
load average: 0.07, 0.02, 0.00
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: "Rob Hughes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Things Linux can't do!
Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 12:35:52 -0500
"Stephen S. Edwards II" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:8fp33a$joh$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
<various snippage>
> I have seen a lot of BSODs in my time, and in every single
> instance, I was able to track them back to one of two
> things:
>
> 1.) Faulty, or chintzy hardware.
> 2.) Improperly written drivers.
>
> The above factors are merely a result of clueless
> administrators, who have spent too much time under
> UNIX, and who have tried to deploy WindowsNT in the
> same manner, which you cannot.
uhmm... MS doesn't aggree with you stephen. In a survey _they published_, 40
percent of BSODs were attributed to "internal NT components". Hardware,
apps, etc. got the rest.
<more snippage>
> .-----.
> |[_] :| Stephen S. Edwards II | NetBSD: Free of hype and license.
> | = :| "Artificial Intelligence -- The engineering of systems that
> | | yield results such as, 'The answer is 6.7E23... I think.'"
> |_..._| [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.primenet.com/~rakmount
====== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ======
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
======= Over 80,000 Newsgroups = 16 Different Servers! ======
------------------------------
From: "Ermine Todd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: A Blast From Oracle's Past (Re: Is the PC era over?)
Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 10:29:03 -0700
Crossposted-To: comp.lang.java.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Interesting idea -- for a beginner -- this concept and even specific
implementation have existed for decades. In this specific case, booting
from a CD has been around for quite awhile now - FWIW, you actually can boot
Windows from a CD image - and then never have to worry about your system
getting corrupted - if that's what you want.
The problems with this approach though are that it is STATIC - there is no
way to add new devices or upgrades or to run your own software. You are
totally dependent upon someone else for your data, someone else for your
applications and someone else for your system configuration and upkeep.
--ET--
"petilon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> JTK <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > But I'm curious, o time traveller. Just what was it that you
> > thought was going to replace that "excruciatingly complex and
> > buggy OS"?
>
> A CD-ROM. Exactly what's on the CD-ROM is not something users
> need to know or care about. All they know is that when they
> turn the machine on they get a web browser.
>
> They can then happily visit their favourite news site, order
> stuff online, send e-mail, chat with friends, etc. No DLL
> conflicts to worry about, no disk defragmenter to run, no virus
> scanners to install, no backup software to run, no corrupt hard
> disks due to power failure, no "safe mode" to confuse you, no
> device drivers to update, no screwing up your system by
> accidentally dragging and dropping Windows folder to C:\temp.
>
> Find out more about it here:
> http://www.thinknic.com/
>
> The nic boots from the CD-ROM drive. Don't ask what OS it runs
> because it is invisible. (Do you want to use an OS, or do you
> just want to browse the web?) To upgrade the system, just
> replace the CD-ROM.
>
> It couldn't be simpler.
>
> Now a lot of users want to use CAD software to design rockets,
> prepare legal documents containing hundreds of pages, etc. The
> nic isn't for those people. Those people will be better off
> with a PC.
>
> The nic is for people who don't want to know what a DLL is. It
> is as simple as a remote control, yet as powerful as a PC if
> all you are interested in is the Internet.
>
> And guess what, a lot of new computer users are only interested
> in the Internet.
>
> I predict Microsoft will soon copy the idea of booting from a
> CD-ROM, or go out of business.
>
>
> * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network
*
> The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!
>
------------------------------
From: "Bobby D. Bryant" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux lacks
Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 11:43:27 -0500
mlw wrote:
> > Where is full featured and plenty working NFS GNU/Linux support ?
> > Solaris and SCO's NFS is by far a lot better. GNU/Linux is primary for
> > client purposes.
>
> I'm not sure what you are saying here.
Odds are, neither is he.
> > Where is UDF, USB, ISDN, ADSL decent support ? All of them are
> > beta, do not support all existent devices (by far), and working with them
> > gives you often more than a headache.
>
> I am sitting off a DSL system now, what's your point?
He was just fishing to see whether his copy of the anti-Linux howto is up to
date. (I guess he found out that the answer is "no", eh?)
> > Why if NT is as bad OS Mindcraft I, II and III (with Redhat and Linux
> > gurus around) tests gave NT winner over GNU/Linux ?
>
> Because the test was designed to exploit the specifics of NT, it was not
> a generalized test. There needs to be an independent body to create a
> benchmark that is "representative" of particular server requirements.
> Not a benchmark designed around the NT kernel.
You mean, like c't did, and the astroturfers chose to ignore?
> > Where is NIS+ support ? Where is an open source browser following
> > all the open standards around ?
>
> Again, what do you mean?
He means he doesn't know that Mozilla is more standards compliant than his
browser is.
> > Where's a little of standarization at the window managers world ? Yes,
> > there are a lot of choice ... too much choice for me and too different
> > choices. Why the hell don't they share things ?
>
> This is a problem yes, but a few pretty good standards are better than
> one really bad one.
He doesn't like choice, and he doesn't want anyone else to have it either.
> > Where is the GNU/Linux and open source supreme security ? Haven't been
> > hacked as many open source sites as non open source ones ? Starting from
> > rootshell and till apache site.
>
> All high profile sites have been hacked. Again what's your point. While
> I don't have numbers, I would say Linux is harder to hack than Windows
> NT and IIS. ESPECIALLY with front page.
Darn. I saw a link a couple of weeks back where someone had analyzed all the
known breakins over a recent period. NT was, of course, the worst of the pack.
(Can anyone help me remember what that link was?)
Bobby Bryant
Austin, Texas
------------------------------
From: "Bobby D. Bryant" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux lacks
Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 11:48:30 -0500
JEDIDIAH wrote:
> Although, 4 NIC servers might become plentiful someday<snicker>.
Heh. Linux 2.4 is supposed to support 16 ethernet cards.
(http://linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=2000-05-13-003-04-NW-LF-KN)
Not that I expect anyone to need that many; it's probably just the kernel hackers'
way of thumbing their nose at mindcraft and astroturfers like the one that started
this thread.
Bobby Bryant
Austin, Texas
------------------------------
From: "Bobby D. Bryant" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux lacks
Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 11:52:51 -0500
JEDIDIAH wrote:
> Besides, NT's journaling falls down too easily. I have colleagues
> that have lost work due to crashes on NT despite that 'journaling
> filesystem'.
It's not supposed to work; when software is designed by a marketing department,
all that matters is whether you have something that you can list as a feature. If
you want a feature that really works, you should shop elsewhere.
Bobby Bryant
Austin, Texas
------------------------------
From: "Bobby D. Bryant" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Motif Open Source?
Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 11:56:53 -0500
Donn Miller wrote:
> Damn, I was just about to
> make the move from Motif to Qt or Gtk. Who knows where this will
> lead, though... now that it is Open Source.
I think it has already lost the mindshare war, at least on Linux. Heck,
even conservative old Ada programmers are taking an interest in GTK+
(for use on Windows as well as *x, BTW).
The old "better late than never" adage should come with a warning that a
statute of limitations applies; I think Motif has missed the last bus.
Bobby Bryant
Austin, Texas
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Crossposted-To: linux.redhat.misc
Subject: Is there any money in knowing Linux?
Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 17:56:38 GMT
Hi.
A number of people have asked whether or not anyone is really looking
for the RHCE certification. Also, I've been asked if there is really
anyone out there that is interested in paying people to use their Linux
skills. To help answer these questions, I've created a Linux Salary
Survey at:
http://www.rhce2b.com/salary.html
Please take a moment to take the survey, so that I can show all my
friends with MCSE's that employers are indeed paying people who are
skilled in Linux. Please take the survey if any part of your job
involves Linux.
Also, for anyone interested in taking the RHCE exam, you'll find an
online practice test at:
http://www.rhce2b.com/cgi-bin/form_processor/Forms/test.cgi
You'll also find an interview with Kara Pritchard, author of the RHCE
Linux Exam Cram book at:
http://www.rhce2b.com/kpinterview.html
I'm trying to do my part to advocate the RHCE exam. Please visit my
website and help out.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.rhce2b.com
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: "David Cueto" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux lacks
Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 18:21:37 GMT
Particular cases are not relevant. I assure to you that ext2 has made me
loose more data than NTFS and even FAT32, and it is not a joke. Anyway,
mine is a particular case too :-)
------------------------------
From: "David Cueto" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: progamming models, unix vs Windows
Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 18:21:36 GMT
> Unix has been driving hardware equivalent to today's PC's since
> long before PC's got anywhere near as powerful as they are today.
Sure, and sure there were machines with hardware and software
being made by the same vendor.
------------------------------
From: "David Cueto" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: progamming models, unix vs Windows
Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 18:21:36 GMT
Anyway, NT handles drives in a good way, you can change from one
to another at your will. NT has some partition support that GNU/Linux
does not (I think so), like using last partitions bytes to build a usable
volume, I like that idea.
------------------------------
From: "David Cueto" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: progamming models, unix vs Windows
Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 18:21:37 GMT
> > What about the A20 Gate? Does it still exist out there (in Intels new
> > Itanium 64bit)?
> Wasn't the A20 gate just an April Fools' Joke of c't magazine anyway?
Is it Microsoft guilty of that Intel trick ? Sure Motorola micros were
better, but ....
------------------------------
From: Brian Langenberger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.networking,alt.linux,alt.os.linux
Subject: Re: I have 4's and 5's in a Bind.
Date: 15 May 2000 18:31:16 GMT
In comp.os.linux.advocacy BEN BulleT. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
: OK. So now, I'm leveraging Modern Medicine against Nuclear Bomb Physics
: because surgery is a '5'...
<gibbering snipped>
This reads like a Larry King piece...
http://www.theonion.com/onion3120/iminsane.html
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (abraxas)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: HUMOR: CSMA has the Tholenbot... we should have the Templetonbot. (was
Re: The "outlook" for MS)
Date: 15 May 2000 18:58:09 GMT
In comp.os.linux.advocacy Stephen S. Edwards II <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Angela Kahealani <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> : I advocate that you take your personal flames to a flames newsgroup,
> : and stop crosposting between newsgroups, especially take
> : anything which has to do with MicroSoft out of
> : comp.unix.advocacy, which is where I'm reading your flames and
> : off topic postings. How you appear to me:
> : <URL:http://www.kahealani.com/kahealani/imgs/clipart/headup.jpg>
> A UNIX advocate posting from a Macintosh? How interesting.
Alot more common than youd think. Half the computers in my house
are macs, and rightfully so.
=====yttrx
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Terry Sikes)
Crossposted-To: comp.lang.java.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: A Blast From Oracle's Past (Re: Is the PC era over?)
Date: 15 May 2000 19:02:51 GMT
In article <uVAuqSpv$GA.231@cpmsnbbsa03>, Ermine Todd <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Interesting idea -- for a beginner -- this concept and even specific
>implementation have existed for decades. In this specific case, booting
>from a CD has been around for quite awhile now - FWIW, you actually can boot
>Windows from a CD image - and then never have to worry about your system
>getting corrupted - if that's what you want.
You can install by booting from CD...I'm not sure you can run that
way. What about swap? Will Win2K run this way?
>The problems with this approach though are that it is STATIC - there is no
>way to add new devices or upgrades or to run your own software. You are
>totally dependent upon someone else for your data, someone else for your
>applications and someone else for your system configuration and upkeep.
Of course you can always run content from the Web...its no different
from being dependent on third parties to maintain their web sites.
Caching such content locally solves performance problems and still
avoids the complexity issues with PC software and hardware. Nothing
static about it.
The Mac provides a middle ground between Windows and the NC, and seems
to be quite attractive to lots of folks these days.
Terry
--
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
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