Linux-Advocacy Digest #972, Volume #26 Thu, 8 Jun 00 09:13:03 EDT
Contents:
Re: Canada invites Microsoft north (Donavon Pfeiffer Jr)
Re: Would a M$ Voluntary Split Save It? ("Daniel Johnson")
Re: Canada invites Microsoft north (Donavon Pfeiffer Jr)
Re: PLAN9 O/S - - Upcoming Linux Competition ? ? ? (Oliver Kiddle)
Re: 10 Months of my time wasted on Linux. Back to Microsoft for me! (2:1)
Re: 10 Months of my time wasted on Linux. Back to Microsoft for me! (2:1)
Re: BAD ENTRY IN /etc/ld.so.preload CAUSING ERROR IN LINUX BOOT UP (Tim Palmer)
Re: Please Advice Me (2:1)
Re: SVGALib (2:1)
Re: SVGALib (2:1)
Re: Haakmat digest, volume 2451704 (Pascal Haakmat)
Re: Yet Another Analogy: Military Aircraft. (2:1)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 07:27:40 -0400
From: Donavon Pfeiffer Jr <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Crossposted-To:
comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Canada invites Microsoft north
> > > I might have given that statement some credit if it wasn't for the way
> > > you use the word "liberal" - as if it was a bad thing.
> > It most assuredly is in the way it is used in the US. Liberal here means
> > an all-controlling, big brother goverment which attempts to control every
> > action of every citizen except the elite ruling class.
>
> If you're a right-winger, anyway. Of course, it's possible right-wingers
> are the *only* people in the US who still use the word "liberal".
>
No, we Libertarians use it too. It refers to people who believe that
citizens are sheep incapable of thought and responsibility for their own actions.
This philosophy leads to an ever expanding government which tries to do all the
thinking for its citizenry until said citizenry is incapable of thinking for itself.
> Freedom is measured in terms of the ability of a
> > citizen to decide how much health insurance he wishes to purchase.
>
> Sez you. OTOH, with "socialized medicine", a citizen doesn't have to worry
> about paying for medicare at all.
>
Wrong, in order for my grandmother to have both her hips replaced
without an inordinate wait my grandfather paid for it out of pocket. Where did this
happen? England.That shining example of socialised medicine.
>
>
> It's your constant yammering on the "liberal" theme and complaining about
> paying taxes that puts you down as a right-winger.
Or a Libertarian.Right winger is a phrase used by those who disagree to
demonize people of conservative or Libertarian thought as racist, homophobic
polluters who hate children. old people and the poor. Calling someone a "right
winger" is a lot easier than actually debating the facts. Just as is calling someone
a "fascist","hippie","pinko","commie" etc.It's an intellectually dishonest and lazy
approach that has become very popular in the US.
> Your apparent ignorance
> about Canada doesn't help either.
>
> --
>
> C Lund
> http://www.notam.uio.no/~clund/
------------------------------
From: "Daniel Johnson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: Would a M$ Voluntary Split Save It?
Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 11:32:32 GMT
"Leslie Mikesell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:8hnhec$2mm7$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> In article <gfB%4.1665$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> Daniel Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >> Flip a coin between the 'kill Netscape' and the Halloween
> >> document strategy of mutating the protocol again.
> >
> >Right. Lower prices or improved product.
>
> Dumping product until the competition is dead or breaking
> well-considered protocols is not an improvement.
The Halloween document specifies *improved* products.
And "dumping" *is* an improvement for the customers; it's
rather inconvinient for competitors, but they can cope.
I have, for instance, no doubt that Microsoft will rise to the
challen of Linux, even though Linux is clearly being dumped
into Windows NT's market. MS can't hope to undercut Linux
on pricing and still make money, but that doesn't mean they
have to give up.
> >> No, it isn't served well enough even if you count Sun, Corel,
> >> SGI, and parts of IBM. There is always room for more.
> >
> >Really? Why do you feel the "I hate Microsoft" market is
> >underserved?
>
> Because WINE isn't complete yet to allow an easy transition
> away while keeping some legacy apps working.
Hmmm.
If Linux had had perfect Windows emulator, would *you* use
it? It would mean using Windows apps, after all.
> >> Hate is a little extreme - I just try to avoid them even
> >> though they make it impossible.
> >
> >You'd endorse a blatantly unjust double standard; I don't
> >think it's just because you are avoiding them.
>
> The double standard has to do with their size and impact
> on everyone. We need the same protection from their
> whims that we have with communications carriers - interfaces
> that follow standards.
Their competitors need protection; they can't seem to keep up.
The rest of us don't.
> >CORBA makes you dependant on your ORB rather than your
> >OS. Whether this is a good thing depends heavily on the
> >specifics of the case.
>
> But you have a choice of ORB's so you are not locked in
> there either.
You have a choice of OSes too. You still get locked in;
you are almost certain to be dependant on the feature
set of your particular ORB.
[snip]
> >While MIcrosoft was legal obliged to provide the source code
> >to IBM, they were not obliged to do IBM's development for it.
>
> Yes, and if you read the license agreement on every product
> you will find they aren't obliged to give you something that
> works either. We can all expect the treatment they have
> demonstrated so well.
Well, that *is* true. Aren't EULA's grand? Still, MS does
provide product that works, though not legally obliged
to do so. Such are the realities of the market, you know.
> >> The opposite. It solves more of the problem.
> >
> >No, the problem is to be able to use the wide variety of
> >printers out there with the wide variety of software out
> >there.
> >
> >Standardizing on PostScript gives you the software end of
> >the thing. Better than nothing, but shy of what Windows gives
> >you.
>
> For the subset of software that runs under Windows.
Well, yes. You can't expect such standardization to be
cross platform, after all. Had Windows standardized
on PostScript, that would have done zip for anyone else.
[snip]
> >I don't agree. And I think it clear that the vast majority of
> >users at the time didn't agree, either: they switched to
> >Windows, rather than switching to PostScript printers.
>
> Some individual users with one computer and one printer have
> done that. Offices tend to have a mix and the diversity
> is growing.
More precisely, they have a mix of printers (and other accessories)
but they tend to be mostly Windows, because by doing so their
mix of hardware works.
> >> If you use a non-standard ioctl(), or make
> >> up a new API, you lose the ability to talk to new types
> >> of hardware with the existing program.
> >
> >It is very desirable not to make this tradeoff; Microsoft's
> >answer is the proliferation of very many APIs. Some
> >disagree with it, but it does let you have portability and
> >still use the features.
> >
> >(Where portability means 'works on many different
> >sound cards' not 'works on Unix too'.)
>
> That is not what portability means. You mean 'it is limited
> to windows programs written after the API was added'.
I'm not sure what word to use; I had to explain it because
I knew it would be unclear.
Being 'portable' to different sound cards is, of course,
the *point*. It is limited to software written after the API
was added, but not to sound cards created before the
software was written.
> >> How long does your business keep data around?
> >
> >Longer than that; we've still got some old DOS WordPerfect
> >cruft. Word can read it, though.
>
> And if you modify it, the system that wrote it will have
> to be upgraded to continue to work with it.
Well, not if I save it back in the same format I read it in,
though.
> >> They haven't needed to kill a wordprocessing competitor for
> >> a while.
> >
> >Really. What word processing competitor was Word 97
> >supposed to kill?
>
> All of the other old systems, including word95. The money
> for the upgrade version is the same color as a brand new
> copy.
So why doesn't this apply to Windows 2000? Why doesn't
MS want to kill "all the other old systems, including Windows 97?"
I really don't think your conspiracy theory is consistant at ths point.
[snip]
> >Perhaps you should fix the system. I realize you may presume
> >that Windows systems *cannot* be made to work, so you
> >don't try. But those with more, erm, optimism sometimes do
> >make the fool thing work.
>
> I'm not presuming anything about the system. I'm observing
> it. It does seem healthier on a bigger disk.
Well, okay, why don't you fix it? Is somebody else tasked
with that at your organization?
[snip]
> >> None were unbiased or something I could test myself.
> >
> >If that's your attitude about outright technical documentation,
> >there's no hope for you.
>
> It is only Microsoft that I've given up on.
You seem to have taken it to the point that you cannot
be convinced, even in princinple that MS documents
anything because you refuse to accept the documentation
itself as evidence on that point.
This is a pretty extreme position.
[snip]
> >I thought that was just a shortcut; it ought to move in the
> >usual way.
>
> It says 'you cannot move or copy this item ... ' and offers
> to create a shortcut instead. I just want it out of the
> way.
Perhaps I misremembered it. It's been awhile since I had
to install honest-to-gawd Windows 95.
> >If it's really a namespace extension icon, you could move it by
> >editing the registry, with the caveat that it might not work
> >if it actually somehow depends on being on the desktop. But
> >this is all documented on MSDN, a source you consider
> >to biased to look at.
>
> I thought the windows interface was supposed to be so easy
> to use you didn't have to track down obscure references.
It isn't as consistant as I'd like. It permits people (like MS) to
extend the desktop in all kinds of ways, some of them
stupid (tm).
Using a namespace extension for the "Start MSN" icon
is not a clever way to do this.
Still, I wouldn't want to give up namespace extensions
just because they can be misused.
You'll noticed that MS did eventually drop that icon.
> The other thing I'd like is to drag a folder onto the
> toolbar and have it turn into a popup menu like it does
> in KDE.
A menu but not the start menu? Windows does not have
that feature.
> That way the folder of most-used things can
> be copied around among machines without fiddling with the
> details of the rest of the menu structure and it is
> available both on the desktop and the toolbar.
I don't see why fiddling the details of the toolbar is
preferable to fiddling those of the start menu, and I don't
understand how putting something on the toolbar
means its is also available on the desktop.
> Win98 wants
> to spread the contents out, filling the toolbar instead
> of making a popup. Am I missing something obvious?
No, Windows just doesn't have the feature you are
looking for.
[snip]
> >Well, I'm not sure. Replacing the phones with identical phones
> >is probably cheaper, 'tis true. But replacing them with
> >substantially better phones?
>
> The issue is whether a single company should be allowed to
> force this. Politically, phone companies can't.
No company can force this; that is just your fantasy.
> >Oh wait, you prefer to think that nothing has changed between
> >Word 4.3 and Word 2000 *except* the file format.
>
> I type stuff in, the same stuff comes back out. Just like
> it did with DOS wordperfect and even before. Is it supposed
> to do something different now?
You might know if you read the manual, but it came from
Microsoft, so it is Chock Full o' Lies (tm), no doubt.
> >> Are there really any places still using word95?
> >
> >Surely.
>
> They must be living in isolation somewhere.
Not really; they just aren't using it as an internet protocol,
which is probably wise since it isn't a very good one.
There are lots of people out there who use it as a
*word processor*, for which task it actually is pretty
decent.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 07:40:57 -0400
From: Donavon Pfeiffer Jr <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Crossposted-To:
comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Canada invites Microsoft north
Bob Germer wrote:verage in New Jersey and Pennsylvania (the two states I know the most
> And how can an anglophone live in Quebec and call himself free? If he owns
> a store, he cannot advertise to his English speaking customers. He has to
> send out his bills in two languages. He isn't allowed to list his address
> as Potato Street since that street is now named Rue Pomme de Terre. If he
> doesn't speak French, he cannot get a Civil Service job from what I've
> been told by Francophones in Montreal.
>
> There are far more Asians living in Vancouver, BC than Francophones.
> Street signs there are in English and French. How is that fair to the
> Asians?
>
> We have far more Hispanic Americans that you have Francophone Canadians.
> We don't force the majority to use two languages just to satisfy a
> minority. I wonder how much this pandering to a noisy minority costs the
> average Canadian. I am sure it would buy thousands of MRI machines.
>
Actually the Federal Government does use bilingual signs.We had a recent
projevct to
upgarde a pier and breakwater that stupidly used Federal funding.The area is
predominantly people
of French Canadian ancestry and yet the signs were in English and Spanish even though
we have no
Spanish speaking community. This was a slap in the face to the culture of an area
known for its
"La Kermesse" festival.
>
> What is the unemployment rate in Montreal and the Province of Quebec as
> opposed to Canada as a whole, as compared to the rest of Canada without
> including Quebec?
>
> --
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Bob Germer from Mount Holly, NJ - E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Proudly running OS/2 Warp 4.0 w/ FixPack 12
> MR/2 Ice 2.19zf Registration Number 67
>
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
From: Oliver Kiddle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: PLAN9 O/S - - Upcoming Linux Competition ? ? ?
Date: 8 Jun 2000 12:39:20 GMT
Craig Kelley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Perhaps, but at $350 a pop, it's not going to go anywhere soon.
Not any more it seems:
http://www.bell-labs.com/news/2000/june/7/2.html
I wouldn't get too excited though. I've used Plan 9 when I was at
university and it wasn't that nice. I'm sure that technically
underneath it is very good but it lacks applications (like a
decent shell and window manager). That was a few years ago so it
might have changed. I might install it if I find a spare 486.
Oliver Kiddle
------------------------------
From: 2:1 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: 10 Months of my time wasted on Linux. Back to Microsoft for me!
Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 13:13:00 +0100
Tiberious wrote:
>
>
> In conclusion, we have dumped Linux because Windows is really the
> future.
> Linux shows it age with every command line instruction.
Apart from the excessive use of capitals (couldn't GIVE IT AWAY/ NOBODY
WANTED LINUX), this last paragraph really gives it away that you are a
troll. Phrases like X is the future are designed to provoke. Secondly,
there is nothing wrong with a command line --- many of the things I do,
I do in the command line because they are not possible with /any/ gui I
have ever used.
Also, why does everybody go on so much about fonts in X. Why not just
download ttxfs and shut up about it.
-Ed
--
The day of judgement cometh. Join us O sinful one...
http://fuji.stcatz.ox.ac.uk/cult/index.html
------------------------------
From: 2:1 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: 10 Months of my time wasted on Linux. Back to Microsoft for me!
Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 13:15:11 +0100
JEDIDIAH wrote:
>
> On Wed, 07 Jun 2000 22:45:42 GMT, Tiberious <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >I run a small hardware / software consulting firm and being a
> >businessman educated in solid business principles (Wharton if you must
> [deletia]
> >First we tried Wordperfect but it kept crashing far too much to be
> >useful. The demo's were getting embarrassing. Then we tried StarOffice
> >but even on decent hardware (Pentium II 450mhz with 256 meg) it ran like
>
> This assertion seems suspect.
I must agree. Soffice 5.1 is reasonably responsive on my ageing P133.
Quite how it could be slow on a PII 450 is beyond me.
> >Several clients use video and audio embedded applications which depend
> >on the Creative Sound Blaster Live Card. The support for this device
> >under Linux seems to be dismal.
>
> SB Lives in Office machines?
good popint...
-Ed
--
The day of judgement cometh. Join us O sinful one...
http://fuji.stcatz.ox.ac.uk/cult/index.html
------------------------------
From: Tim Palmer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: BAD ENTRY IN /etc/ld.so.preload CAUSING ERROR IN LINUX BOOT UP
Date: 8 Jun 2000 08:22:45 -0500
Krithika Chidambaram <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>I have a bad entry in /etc/ld.so.preload which is causing the init
>program at start up to fail saying
><bad entry>: error in loading shared library.
>How can I fix this?
Put in your' Windos 95, 98 or 2000 CD and tell it to deleate you're Linux partition,
cause shitt
like this is all Lixnu is ever going to give you. You think you halve it working, and
next thing
you know something else is fucking up. Tha'ts Pinnguine Power.
>Thank You
>
>
Your wealcome.
>
>
------------------------------
From: 2:1 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Please Advice Me
Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 13:50:14 +0100
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> You're an idiot for even considering Linux. Is this what my tax dollars are
> paying for?
How the fscking hell are your tax dollard being spent on linux. Your are
a real wanker. Bugger off.
-Ed
>
> take a look at the real world and see how much Linux is hated and then come
> back.
> Linux sucks the big one....
--
The day of judgement cometh. Join us O sinful one...
http://fuji.stcatz.ox.ac.uk/cult/index.html
------------------------------
From: 2:1 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: SVGALib
Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 13:55:02 +0100
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> Do you ever speak english?
>
> The guy asked to do a screen dump?
>
> Some other guy suggested *.c code be inserted to perform it?
I didn't suggest it as the only method. I happened to have the code
hanging around and thought someone might find it useful. There are
probably easier/better methods, which I hoped someone else could
suggest.
-Ed
>
> What is so difficult here?
>
> On Wed, 07 Jun 2000 20:30:34 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (JEDIDIAH)
> wrote:
>
> > ...the difference between there being a built in infastructure
> > already in place as well as a distinction between the enviroment
> > and the application, or not.
> >
> >[deletia]
--
The day of judgement cometh. Join us O sinful one...
http://fuji.stcatz.ox.ac.uk/cult/index.html
------------------------------
From: 2:1 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: SVGALib
Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 13:57:38 +0100
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> Never said I did David. The guy wanted to do a screen dump. Someone
> suggested patching in *.c code.
>
> Is/was this necessary?
>
> If it was Linux is lame.
You can not do screen dumps of every dos program. Try doing a screendump
of the vgalemmi.exe executable from lemmings. It don't work (it won't
even run properly under windows). So windows is lame too?
-Ed
>
> If not, how does one go about it.
>
> That is it in a nutshell.
>
> On 07 Jun 2000 14:47:27 -0600, Craig Kelley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
>
> >[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> >
> >> Another example of Linux lacking. You have to insert code in order to
> >> take a screen dump...Pitiful this Linux is...Pitiful indeed...
> >
> >You obviously don't know what SVGAlib is.
--
The day of judgement cometh. Join us O sinful one...
http://fuji.stcatz.ox.ac.uk/cult/index.html
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Pascal Haakmat)
Crossposted-To:
comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,nl.scouting
Subject: Re: Haakmat digest, volume 2451704
Date: 8 Jun 2000 12:58:45 GMT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>> Hello.
>
>Goodbye.
Where are you going?
--
Rate your CSMA savvy by identifying the writing styles of
ancient and recent, transient and perdurable CSMA inhabitants:
(35 posters, 259 quotes)
<http://awacs.dhs.org/csmatest>
------------------------------
From: 2:1 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Yet Another Analogy: Military Aircraft.
Date: Thu, 08 Jun 2000 14:03:12 +0100
Jim Richardson wrote:
>
> On Mon, 05 Jun 2000 13:55:08 GMT,
> Christopher Browne, in the persona of <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> brought forth the following words...:
>
> >Centuries ago, Nostradamus foresaw a time when The Ghost In The Machine
> >would say:
> >>Since this is slightly off-topic, I'll briefly mention it; I saw
> >>a program that claims -- and it looks like a good claim, too -- that
> >>the Hindenberg didn't explode and burn because of the hydrogen, but
> >>because of the powdered aluminum and some other chemical that coated
> >>its fabric (the same constitutents as solid rocket fuel, it turned out!),
> >>and improper charge dissipation from the fabric panels, leading to
> >>an electrical spark and...whoosh, there goes the fabric coating.
> >>Note the color of the flame -- it's not blue.
> >
> >_Interesting_.
> >
> >Certainly the "anti-hydrogen lobby" as well as the "anti-German lobby"
> >went for the easy contention that Zeppelins were German and dangerous.
> >It would be most interesting if there were more to it than the
> >hydrogen...
>
> Hydrogen will burn yellow/orange in a fuel poor environment.
No it won't. The yellow/orange colour of a flame is (usually caused by
glowing unburnt carbon particles. This can not happen with hydrogen. It
will always be a virtually invisible flame (although contaminants of any
sort may make it an orange flame).
-Ed
>
> --
> Jim Richardson
> Anarchist, pagan and proud of it
> WWW.eskimo.com/~warlock
> Linux, because life's too short for a buggy OS.
--
The day of judgement cometh. Join us O sinful one...
http://fuji.stcatz.ox.ac.uk/cult/index.html
------------------------------
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