Linux-Advocacy Digest #64, Volume #27 Tue, 13 Jun 00 21:13:07 EDT
Contents:
Re: Run Linux on your desktop? Why? I ask for proof, not advocacy lies....
(JEDIDIAH)
Re: Linux faster than Windows? ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Boring ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Why Linux should be #1 choice for students! ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Run Linux on your desktop? Why? I ask for proof, not advocacy lies....
([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Simon MUST be in TROUBLE ("lwm")
Re: Linux faster than Windows? (JEDIDIAH)
Re: Microsoft Stocks and your sanity... (Grant Fischer)
Re: Run Linux on your desktop? Why? I ask for proof, not advocacy lies.... (David
Steinberg)
Re: Run Linux on your desktop? Why? I ask for proof, not advocacy lies....
(JEDIDIAH)
Re: Why Linux should be #1 choice for students! ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: An Example of the Superiority of Windows vs Linux (Charlie Ebert)
Re: An Example of the Superiority of Windows vs Linux (Charlie Ebert)
Re: Linux faster than Windows? (Charlie Ebert)
Re: An Example of the Superiority of Windows vs Linux (JEDIDIAH)
Re: An Example of the Superiority of Windows vs Linux (JEDIDIAH)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (JEDIDIAH)
Subject: Re: Run Linux on your desktop? Why? I ask for proof, not advocacy lies....
Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 00:00:24 GMT
On Tue, 13 Jun 2000 23:37:24 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>So exactly how is Linux going to unseat the already 90 or more percent
>of home/SOHO/desktop users from Windows and entice them into running
That's 90% of users today. There's still plenty of untapped
market that Microsoft hasn't tapped yet.
>Linux?
>
>How about Office suites?
>
>Sure StarOffice is free, it is free for Windows users also but
>virtually nobody uses it. Why is that? MSOffice carries a hefty price
>tag but is still the standard by which all office suites are gauged.
>Why is that?
A product is ultimately most compatible with itself.
>Figure it out for yourself.
>
>How about hardware support.
>
>Still using that Daisywheel printer? Dot-Matrix job you bought at an
>IBM fleamarket? I doubt it. Today's PC's come with state of the art
Actually, I am using an inkjet the sort of inkjet a dustbin
buyer like you might be picking up these days. Although, I've
had mine for 5 years and have been fully exploiting it in Linux
all that time.
>hardware built in to the system. Sure some of it (modem?) might be Win
>hardware, but who really cares? It works...
...kindof... until your Quake scores are off and you see the
propaganda at 3com about how a non-winmodem is a better
performer. Then, suddenly the chuckles of those hardcore gamers
that said the same thing don't seem quite so empty any more.
>
>Try that same combination under Linux and see what happens.
>
>How about all that fine software that was included with the price of
>your Walmart special PC. Guess what!! It won't work with Linux!!!!
...probably Walmart-esque quality software too.
>
>So you have to try and acquire equivalent versions of everything near
>and dear to you.
>
>Let's talk ISP's.
>
>Talk to Earthlink, Worldnet, FreeWeb, AOL, Compuserv and see what they
>think of Linux.
I was on both Worldnet and CI$ with Linux without any problem.
Although, those are relatively expensive ISPs that only a chump
would bother with. The cheaper one's will more than happily
accomodate Linux.
Worldnet has online help for Linux BTW.
>
>Try it yourself and see. Hint,,,,they are not happy......
>
>How about Napster, Digital Audio, Digital Video and so forth. Think
Got both napster and some of it's clones.
I was doing Digital Video and Audio on Atari ST's in the 80's,
nevermind todays kludge-klones nevermind the OS.
[deletia]
--
|||
/ | \
Need sane PPP docs? Try penguin.lvcm.com.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Linux faster than Windows?
Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 00:02:46 GMT
So how about showing us how Linux is taking over the 90 plus percent
desktop market that Windows already owns?
On Tue, 13 Jun 2000 23:54:27 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (JEDIDIAH)
wrote:
>On Tue, 13 Jun 2000 23:46:02 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>wrote:
>>It is ASSUMED....
>>
>>Exactly why Windows is succeeding and Linux is failing.
>
> The numbers simply don't support your hyperbole as of yet.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Boring
Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 00:06:07 GMT
On Tue, 13 Jun 2000 23:53:11 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (JEDIDIAH)
wrote:
>On Tue, 13 Jun 2000 23:41:12 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>wrote:
>>Errrr.....
>>
>>I would say that db2 blows away Oracle for whatever it is worth.
>>
>>And before you jump on the fact that db2 has announced Linux support,
>
> They're shipping CD's actually.
I think I already inferred that point....
>>I would ask how many users are actually using it?
>
> Such things are hardly "it's best because X million cluebies
> are using it" sort of product.
THink $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ jedi....
When IBM, figures out there is no money in Linux, and it won't be
long, support will be dropped...
>>
>>It will be gone in 2 years or less.
>
> ...the voice of an armchair sysadmin.
Nope, the voice of someone who visits IBM accounts on a daily basis.
Nobody is interested in Linux, nobody that I speak with anyway.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Why Linux should be #1 choice for students!
Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 00:04:19 GMT
In article <8hh3o5$31l$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Mig Mig <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> One could or even Emacs.. but one also could use Lyx (www.lyx.org) or
Klyx.
> Once youve tryed doing some major work with Word and failed...you
learn to
> appreciate Latex.
Curious. What did you try and fail to do in Word?
-wrinkledshirt
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Run Linux on your desktop? Why? I ask for proof, not advocacy lies....
Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 00:12:52 GMT
On Wed, 14 Jun 2000 00:00:24 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (JEDIDIAH)
wrote:
>On Tue, 13 Jun 2000 23:37:24 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>wrote:
>>So exactly how is Linux going to unseat the already 90 or more percent
>>of home/SOHO/desktop users from Windows and entice them into running
>
> That's 90% of users today. There's still plenty of untapped
> market that Microsoft hasn't tapped yet.
Like what? Eight and ten year olds? Hint....they are already using
Windows at the local public library.
>>Linux?
>>
>>How about Office suites?
>>
>>Sure StarOffice is free, it is free for Windows users also but
>>virtually nobody uses it. Why is that? MSOffice carries a hefty price
>>tag but is still the standard by which all office suites are gauged.
>>Why is that?
>
> A product is ultimately most compatible with itself.
Doubletalk.
And that is exactly why nobody else is interested. They have to be
comaptible with accountants, lawyers, doctors, police, admins etc all
of which are using Windows.
You mention Linux in these situations and people cringe.....
>>Figure it out for yourself.
>>
>>How about hardware support.
>>
>>Still using that Daisywheel printer? Dot-Matrix job you bought at an
>>IBM fleamarket? I doubt it. Today's PC's come with state of the art
>
> Actually, I am using an inkjet the sort of inkjet a dustbin
> buyer like you might be picking up these days. Although, I've
> had mine for 5 years and have been fully exploiting it in Linux
> all that time.
Boat anchor. For what you paid for that pile of crap you could buy an
entire PC......
>>hardware built in to the system. Sure some of it (modem?) might be Win
>>hardware, but who really cares? It works...
>
> ...kindof... until your Quake scores are off and you see the
> propaganda at 3com about how a non-winmodem is a better
> performer. Then, suddenly the chuckles of those hardcore gamers
> that said the same thing don't seem quite so empty any more.
Quake scores are LOWER under Linux...Take a look at ANY benchmark....
>>
>>Try that same combination under Linux and see what happens.
>>
>>How about all that fine software that was included with the price of
>>your Walmart special PC. Guess what!! It won't work with Linux!!!!
>
> ...probably Walmart-esque quality software too.
Nope, they provide stuff Joe sixpack needs, unlike 5 different free
compilers provided under Linux.
Give it up jedi you are fighting an already lost battle.
I have used every single, currnet distribution of Linsux except
Slackware, and they all suck...
I can discuss each one in detail if you wish and they will still come
up short.
i am quite unlike the typical LinoShill that used Windows 5 years ago
and was pissed off.
>
>>
>>So you have to try and acquire equivalent versions of everything near
>>and dear to you.
>>
>>Let's talk ISP's.
>>
>>Talk to Earthlink, Worldnet, FreeWeb, AOL, Compuserv and see what they
>>think of Linux.
>
> I was on both Worldnet and CI$ with Linux without any problem.
> Although, those are relatively expensive ISPs that only a chump
> would bother with. The cheaper one's will more than happily
> accomodate Linux.
>
> Worldnet has online help for Linux BTW.
>
>>
>>Try it yourself and see. Hint,,,,they are not happy......
>>
>>How about Napster, Digital Audio, Digital Video and so forth. Think
>
> Got both napster and some of it's clones.
>
> I was doing Digital Video and Audio on Atari ST's in the 80's,
> nevermind todays kludge-klones nevermind the OS.
>
>[deletia]
------------------------------
From: "lwm" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Simon MUST be in TROUBLE
Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 00:15:38 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
<Highly insightful comments deleted for brevity>
I couldn't agree with you more simon. You're intellegence will just
never allow to operate anything slightly more complicated than a
toaster. But that's OK. Windows will always be around for you. And
when Linux becomes easy to use as a toaster, don't worry. MS will
still be churning out upgrades and you can continue to pay out the
ass for as often as you want! MS loves shills like you! Even though
no one else in this world does. So don't worry simon, MS will always
be there and always appreciate you even if noone else does.
Take Care!
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (JEDIDIAH)
Subject: Re: Linux faster than Windows?
Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 00:15:44 GMT
On Wed, 14 Jun 2000 00:02:46 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>
>
>So how about showing us how Linux is taking over the 90 plus percent
>desktop market that Windows already owns?
I would describe it more as a war of attrition.
[deletia]
Linux isn't going anywhere and Microsoft has to keep funding itself.
--
|||
/ | \
Need sane PPP docs? Try penguin.lvcm.com.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Grant Fischer)
Subject: Re: Microsoft Stocks and your sanity...
Date: 14 Jun 2000 00:18:25 GMT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Tue, 13 Jun 2000 19:50:00 GMT, Pete Goodwin
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Grant Fischer) wrote in
><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>
>>Given the fundamental problems on your Linux installation that
>>you've been complaining about, I'd hesitate to use it for
>>performance testing.
>
>That was the other machine, not the one I did the tests on.
Does this machine exhibit the same problems as the other?
(Thrashing on printing the large PNG.)
--
Grant Fischer (gfischer at the domain hub.org)
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (David Steinberg)
Subject: Re: Run Linux on your desktop? Why? I ask for proof, not advocacy lies....
Date: 14 Jun 2000 00:18:51 GMT
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
: Talk to Earthlink, Worldnet, FreeWeb, AOL, Compuserv and see what they
: think of Linux.
Just out of curiousity, Steve, do you have accounts on ALL of those ISP's
with which to troll this newsgroup?
--
David Steinberg -o)
Computer Engineering Undergrad, UBC / \
[EMAIL PROTECTED] _\_v
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (JEDIDIAH)
Subject: Re: Run Linux on your desktop? Why? I ask for proof, not advocacy lies....
Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 00:24:56 GMT
On Wed, 14 Jun 2000 00:12:52 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>On Wed, 14 Jun 2000 00:00:24 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (JEDIDIAH)
>wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 13 Jun 2000 23:37:24 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>wrote:
>>>So exactly how is Linux going to unseat the already 90 or more percent
>>>of home/SOHO/desktop users from Windows and entice them into running
>>
>> That's 90% of users today. There's still plenty of untapped
>> market that Microsoft hasn't tapped yet.
>
>
>Like what? Eight and ten year olds? Hint....they are already using
>Windows at the local public library.
The rest of the planet that isn't wired yet. That even
includes some of the kids at the local public library.
>
>
>>>Linux?
>>>
>>>How about Office suites?
>>>
>>>Sure StarOffice is free, it is free for Windows users also but
>>>virtually nobody uses it. Why is that? MSOffice carries a hefty price
>>>tag but is still the standard by which all office suites are gauged.
>>>Why is that?
>>
>> A product is ultimately most compatible with itself.
>
>Doubletalk.
No it isn't. The ultimate end goal of the Lemming is "compatibility".
>
>And that is exactly why nobody else is interested. They have to be
>comaptible with accountants, lawyers, doctors, police, admins etc all
>of which are using Windows.
So? They're using Windows. One can be compatible with many of these
people without touching any product that any of these members of
the collective would likely ever see.
It depends on how convoluted the application is.
> You mention Linux in these situations and people cringe.....
>
Actually some of those 'whippersnappers' are starting to push
Linux into such places...
>
>
>
>>>Figure it out for yourself.
>>>
>>>How about hardware support.
>>>
>>>Still using that Daisywheel printer? Dot-Matrix job you bought at an
>>>IBM fleamarket? I doubt it. Today's PC's come with state of the art
>>
>> Actually, I am using an inkjet the sort of inkjet a dustbin
>> buyer like you might be picking up these days. Although, I've
>> had mine for 5 years and have been fully exploiting it in Linux
>> all that time.
>
>Boat anchor. For what you paid for that pile of crap you could buy an
>entire PC......
Not when I bought it. Meanwhile, I was enjoying it then and now
rather than just being restricted to the lowest end rejects from
the bargain bin.
I might still be chugging away after you've thrown your latest
dust bin acquisition onto the scrap heap.
>
>
>>>hardware built in to the system. Sure some of it (modem?) might be Win
>>>hardware, but who really cares? It works...
>>
>> ...kindof... until your Quake scores are off and you see the
>> propaganda at 3com about how a non-winmodem is a better
>> performer. Then, suddenly the chuckles of those hardcore gamers
>> that said the same thing don't seem quite so empty any more.
>
>
>Quake scores are LOWER under Linux...Take a look at ANY benchmark....
Quake is a NETWORK game. So merely blindly quoting the graphics
scores just shows how clueless you are.
Besides, the graphics benchmarks aren't that far off these days.
>>>
>>>Try that same combination under Linux and see what happens.
>>>
>>>How about all that fine software that was included with the price of
>>>your Walmart special PC. Guess what!! It won't work with Linux!!!!
>>
>> ...probably Walmart-esque quality software too.
>
>
>Nope, they provide stuff Joe sixpack needs, unlike 5 different free
>compilers provided under Linux.
...or an mp3 player that isn't a trainwreck (like winamp is),
or even more of a trainwreck like the Windows Media player.
>
>
>Give it up jedi you are fighting an already lost battle.
>
>I have used every single, currnet distribution of Linsux except
>Slackware, and they all suck...
>
>I can discuss each one in detail if you wish and they will still come
>up short.
No you can't. When pressed for any level of detail, you always
fall over.
[deletia]
>>>Talk to Earthlink, Worldnet, FreeWeb, AOL, Compuserv and see what they
>>>think of Linux.
>>
>> I was on both Worldnet and CI$ with Linux without any problem.
>> Although, those are relatively expensive ISPs that only a chump
>> would bother with. The cheaper one's will more than happily
>> accomodate Linux.
>>
>> Worldnet has online help for Linux BTW.
>>
>>>
>>>Try it yourself and see. Hint,,,,they are not happy......
>>>
>>>How about Napster, Digital Audio, Digital Video and so forth. Think
>>
>> Got both napster and some of it's clones.
>>
>> I was doing Digital Video and Audio on Atari ST's in the 80's,
>> nevermind todays kludge-klones nevermind the OS.
>>
>>[deletia]
>
--
|||
/ | \
Need sane PPP docs? Try penguin.lvcm.com.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Why Linux should be #1 choice for students!
Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 00:17:14 GMT
<snip>
Actually, Linux should be the number 1 choice for students because you
never stop learning. <shudder>
In all seriousness, you're going to have a hard time convincing the
average person who doesn't need to do any tricky formatting that it's
better to write reports with LaTex than with Word. Bugginess with
templates and macros notwithstanding, Word's a pretty decent program if
all you need to do is write a double-spaced, Times 12, footnoted and
endnoted, page-numbered report using two different styles (one for body
text, one for quoted text), which I'm willing to bet is all the average
non-science-oriented person would need to do for their thesis. Word
does all these pretty well. You could do way worse than strive for
Word's usability at this level.
-wrinkledshirt
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: Charlie Ebert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: An Example of the Superiority of Windows vs Linux
Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 00:53:23 GMT
On Tue, 13 Jun 2000, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>Let us know when you have a mainframe in your living room.
>
>Better let your wife know first though :)
>
>
The typical mainframe of today is about the size of a washing machine.
I'd switch to a 19 inch T.V. and remove the stereo probably.
But it could be done.
>
>On Tue, 13 Jun 2000 01:07:16 -0500, "Bobby D. Bryant"
><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>>Tiberious wrote:
>>
>>> Linux on the other hand?
>>>
>>> 1. Doesn't support the scanner.
>>> 2. Barely supports the printer.
>>
>>Let us know when Windows runs on everything from a 486 to a mainframe, and
>>then we'll start making comparisons of which has the best "hardware support".
>>
>>Bobby Bryant
>>Austin, Texas
>>
------------------------------
From: Charlie Ebert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: An Example of the Superiority of Windows vs Linux
Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 00:53:23 GMT
On Tue, 13 Jun 2000, Pete Goodwin wrote:
>[EMAIL PROTECTED] (David M. Cook) wrote in
><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>
>>Why the hell should linux support every goddam crackhead piece of
>>hardware that manufacturers come up with?
>>
>>If you want a scanner that will work with Linux, get one that uses a
>>standard interface like SCSI.
>
>Because using the printer port is cheaper. Because SCSI costs money!
>
>Does Linux support USB scanners as yet? I have one, and SANE told me I had
>no scanner device.
>
>Pete
Pete is one classic example of a Windows user who's actually afraid of Linux.
He continually posts negative Linux comments, you'll never hear a good one
from Pete.
Pete believes like I've said that Linux is going to wipe out Microsoft soon.
And it worries him.
So, he posts and he posts. It's like a political campaign for Pete.
Of course sane supports scanners. Of course Linux supports USB.
Has for some time Pete.
Pete is the best linux advocate I've ever seen.
He just doesn't believe he is.
Charlie
------------------------------
From: Charlie Ebert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux faster than Windows?
Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 00:53:24 GMT
On Tue, 13 Jun 2000, JEDIDIAH wrote:
>On Wed, 14 Jun 2000 00:02:46 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>wrote:
>>
>>
>>So how about showing us how Linux is taking over the 90 plus percent
>>desktop market that Windows already owns?
>
> I would describe it more as a war of attrition.
>
>[deletia]
>
> Linux isn't going anywhere and Microsoft has to keep funding itself.
>
>--
>
> |||
> / | \
>
> Need sane PPP docs? Try penguin.lvcm.com.
Exactly!
If there ever were an apocolypse, there would be Cockroaches, Linux and Cher.
Charlie
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (JEDIDIAH)
Subject: Re: An Example of the Superiority of Windows vs Linux
Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 00:56:25 GMT
On Wed, 14 Jun 2000 00:53:23 GMT, Charlie Ebert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>On Tue, 13 Jun 2000, Pete Goodwin wrote:
>>[EMAIL PROTECTED] (David M. Cook) wrote in
>><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>>
>>>Why the hell should linux support every goddam crackhead piece of
>>>hardware that manufacturers come up with?
>>>
>>>If you want a scanner that will work with Linux, get one that uses a
>>>standard interface like SCSI.
>>
>>Because using the printer port is cheaper. Because SCSI costs money!
SCSI only costs $30 these days.
>>
>>Does Linux support USB scanners as yet? I have one, and SANE told me I had
>>no scanner device.
>>
>>Pete
>
>Pete is one classic example of a Windows user who's actually afraid of Linux.
>He continually posts negative Linux comments, you'll never hear a good one
>from Pete.
>
>Pete believes like I've said that Linux is going to wipe out Microsoft soon.
>And it worries him.
>
>So, he posts and he posts. It's like a political campaign for Pete.
Did you know that Star Office was a SANE client?
>
>Of course sane supports scanners. Of course Linux supports USB.
>Has for some time Pete.
>
>Pete is the best linux advocate I've ever seen.
>He just doesn't believe he is.
--
|||
/ | \
Need sane PPP docs? Try penguin.lvcm.com.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (JEDIDIAH)
Subject: Re: An Example of the Superiority of Windows vs Linux
Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 00:58:24 GMT
On Wed, 14 Jun 2000 00:53:23 GMT, Charlie Ebert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>On Tue, 13 Jun 2000, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>>Let us know when you have a mainframe in your living room.
>>
>>Better let your wife know first though :)
>>
>>
>
>The typical mainframe of today is about the size of a washing machine.
>I'd switch to a 19 inch T.V. and remove the stereo probably.
>But it could be done.
Howabout 2 racks worth of Beowulf built from E420's? That would take
up about as much linear space in one of the corners as would a larger
tube or projection TV.
[deletia]
--
|||
/ | \
Need sane PPP docs? Try penguin.lvcm.com.
------------------------------
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