Linux-Advocacy Digest #351, Volume #27 Mon, 26 Jun 00 16:13:09 EDT
Contents:
Re: MS Windows WM ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: stability of culture of helpfulness ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Do not like Windows but ... ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Windows98
Re: Do not like Windows but ... (Cihl)
RE: Do not like Windows but ... ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
RE: Do not like Windows but ... ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
RE: Do not like Windows but ... ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: If Linux is desktop ready ... (Donovan Rebbechi)
Re: Comparing Windows NT and UNIX System Management (Cihl)
Re: Do not like Windows but ... (Nathaniel Jay Lee)
Re: Microsoft Ruling Too Harsh (MK)
Re: [JOB] Debian installer needed near Ft. Lauderdale, Florida.
Re: Do not like Windows but ... (Brian Langenberger)
Re: OS's ... (Nathaniel Jay Lee)
Re: Lost Cause Theater!!! (Cihl)
Re: Thorne digest, volume 2451720 ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Tholen digest, volume 2451719.328^-.00000000000006 ("Joe Malloy")
Re: Tholen digest, volume 2451720.635^-.00000000055 ("Joe Malloy")
Re: Tholen digest, volume 2451720.547^-.0000000037 ("Joe Malloy")
Re: Would a M$ Voluntary Split Save It? (Leslie Mikesell)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: MS Windows WM
Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 18:55:52 GMT
But I DID give an example. How many do I need to qualify?
Being a recent refugee from the evil empire, I've gotten spoiled by
little things like that drag'n'drop stuff. I've had a couple different
people suggest that I send my complaints to the Gnome/MC people, but
I'm not exactly sure how I would do that. I've gotten so used to my
pleas for help falling on the deaf ears of our Big Brother in Redmond,
I was actually shocked to think that I might actually see something
happen as a result of my feedback. Or I might not. At least there's
hope in the linux world.
>
> The problem is you aren't really demonstrating why your opinion is
> valid, apart from what's below.
>
> > All you've got to do is compare the dran-n-drop method of
> > creating a shortcut to the manual creation of launcher icons in
Gnome
> > to see what I mean.
>
> Hmm...<Tries it>. Oh, you're right. I'm surprised you can't do that.
> Creating application launchers isn't that bad. Most GNOME
applications
> install themselves into the menu, and you can add them to the launcher
> via a right-click menu. It's a shame you can't just drag a file to
the
> panel and have it create a launcher though. Perhaps you should
> subscribe to the appropriate GNOME mailing list and put your request
> forward.
>
> --
> Darren Winsper (El Capitano) - ICQ #8899775
> Stellar Legacy project member - http://www.stellarlegacy.tsx.org
> DVD boycotts. Are you doing your bit?
> This message was typed before a live studio audience.
>
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Crossposted-To: alt.os.linux,comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: stability of culture of helpfulness
Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 19:07:11 GMT
In article <Pine.LNX.4.21.0006252222390.4371-
[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
"Andrew N. McGuire " <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> You are a real piece of work. Learn to spell, get an idea of what
> you are talking about, then maybe post if you have something useful
> to contribute, troll.
I believe that would make you the troll-ee. Nice spelling flame too!
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Do not like Windows but ...
Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 19:11:26 GMT
performance, stability, ease of use for the ADVANCED user. Never mind
that the 2.2 kernel is ALREADY compeditive with W2K, ANY impovement to
the Linux kernel will move linux PAST w2k
In article <39579c97$0$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
"James Bond" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I read the 2.4 kernel feature summary, and fail to understand how this
will
> surpass W2k. Perhaps you care to elaborate. To me it looks like it
is the
> other way round. 2.4 is there to catch up to W2k (like with USB
support).
>
> James
>
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:8j8533$lot$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > Yawn, your not very good at trooling, I compared the 2.2 kenel
> > (favorably) to w2k. I then stated that the 2.4 kernel is will be
even
> > better. The emplication being, that newest of MS products is on par
with
> > the kernel that has been OUT for some time now. The 2.4 kernel is
coming
> > out soon and has MANY improvements that will surpass w2k. With MS's
very
> > long development cycle, it will be quite some time before MS catches
up
> > again!
> >
> >
> > In article <I3K55.204$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> > "Pedro Iglesias" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >
> > > > No, I did. You want to compare OS's? Let's compare.
> > >
> > > Well, I think Unix does a better server than any Windows, was
> > > this what you wanted to hear to ? Anyway, do not be vaporwareman,
> > > kernel 2.4 is not still here.
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> > Before you buy.
>
>
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ()
Subject: Re: Windows98
Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 19:11:45 GMT
On Mon, 26 Jun 2000 12:57:10 -0500, Tim Kelley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Tim Palmer wrote:
>
>> So how is the proletrareit doing you STOOPID COMMY!
>
>This guy has got to be a joke. I hope so, because someone this
>fucking stupid is almost not even imaginable.
As a homeowner, a downtrodden and quite likely highly disatisfied
working class does me no good. Neither does an underclass of
illiterates or a large prison population. Ineffective methods of
attempting to avoid crime don't benefit me either.
--
|||
/ | \
------------------------------
From: Cihl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Do not like Windows but ...
Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 19:29:37 GMT
Pedro Iglesias wrote:
>
> nowadays :
>
> winamp is better than xmms or whatever on Linux
WinAmp is 99.9% the same as Xmms. What has an MP3-player got to do
with the quality of an OS, anyway?
> word is better than startoffice or whatever on Linux (wordperfect,
> abiword, ...)
No. Word only has more features, that's all. Word is faster than WP,
but slower than Abiword, and Abiword is not finished anyway. More
typewriter-apps are coming, stick around.
> multimedia and games are better than on Linux
No, there are just more of them. Quality is about the same, if you
look at Q3A for example.
> photoshop is better than GIMP (besides at Windows there are a lot of good
> ones)
The Gimp is actually considered among professionals to be the very
best of image processing tools. You probably started, saw that it
didn't fill the entire screen, and thought it sucked. Well, your loss,
not mine.
> mame goes better (DOS or Windows) than Linux one
Mame? Who wants to run Mame? It's more of an old-games-archive than an
emulator, anyway. Windows and Linux versions both suck ass.
> explorer is better than netscape
True. Netscape sucks, period. There are better browsers coming very
soon, though. Internet Explorer is actually not very good either. It's
too big and slow. It just has a lot of features, that's all. Sounds
like Word.
Also, have you tried this?
Open a LOT of IExplorer frames at the same time. (Going to Warez-sites
will do this for you) You need over 25 frames.
Now press [ALT] and keep it down. Now start tapping [F4] really fast.
Before the frames are all gone, you will have an illegal exception or
a BSOD.
> eudora is better than whichever Linux program
Eudora is a fine mail-client, that's true. It isn't better than Linux
mail-clients though. It's somewhat like KMail.
> outlook express is better than whatever Linux news reader
> development tools are much more better under Windows
You actually use OE as a news reader? I tried it once myself. I didn't
like it. I kept pressing the wrong buttons at the top. They are laid
out really badly. Also, it crashed on me twice with an Illegal
Exception. I'm not going to use it again.
> what does remain ?
Nothing you would be interested in. You're so used to Windows, you
don't think you can do anything else with your computer but what
Microsoft tells you you can do.
> yeah, Linux is very cheap and very stable and very secure (depends on
> administator),
> but, what to use it for nowadays that can't be done more productively under
> Windows ?
As above.
--
¨I live!¨
¨I hunger!¨
¨Run, coward!¨
-- The Sinistar
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: Do not like Windows but ...
Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 19:18:47 GMT
So, you like to waist money??? and that is a reason to use MS
software???? what a joke! Most people DO NOT like to waste there money
this way.,
In article <S6K55.208$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
"Pedro Iglesias" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Word is very expenisive for "light Work".
>
> I do not smoke, do not drink, I save a lot of money that I can
> spend as I prefer.
>
>
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: Do not like Windows but ...
Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 19:16:43 GMT
Yeah, right. Go away little troll
In article <g5K55.205$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
"Pedro Iglesias" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Until all your personal data stored on your computer is lost because
of
> > an Email virus or crash!
>
> Obviously, my data is backed up often. In fact, the only time I
lost data
> was with SuSE Linux 5.1 at a panic kernel.
>
>
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: Do not like Windows but ...
Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 19:15:45 GMT
This is a LINUX advocacy group. Not even smart enough to figure that out
EH? Most people here support Linux as a viable *CHOICE* in a market
dominated by MS.
In article <i6K55.207$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
"Pedro Iglesias" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Isn't *Choice* wonderful? You can have your overpriced software that
> > *YOU* like, I can have the free or cheap software the *I* like! So,
what
> > your point? That everyone sould use MS software because *you* like
some
> > of the applications it runs???
>
> Before answering to you ... tell me, what's this group for ?
>
>
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Donovan Rebbechi)
Subject: Re: If Linux is desktop ready ...
Date: 26 Jun 2000 19:32:22 GMT
On Mon, 26 Jun 2000 16:25:14 GMT, Pedro Iglesias wrote:
>
>... then tell me why the Hell a home user should to care about compiling
>sources ?
A home user might not want to compile the sources, but they'd certainly
enjoy using peer-reviewed software, written by developers who are
receptive to their feed back. There's more to Open Source than "you can
compile it", and the advantages have been explained a zillion times in this
forum.
>If he/she learns the ./configure;make;make install procedure, why the Hell
>should he/she know that awk 1.0.4 prevents gtk from compiling correctly ?
If you are using a src.rpm, you don't do ./configure;make;make install, and
the src.rpm tells you that awk 1.0.4 prevents gtk from compiling correctly
--
Donovan
------------------------------
From: Cihl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy
Subject: Re: Comparing Windows NT and UNIX System Management
Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 19:35:14 GMT
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> Reboot, reinstall, reformat. Can I have my MCSE now?
>
> Ooops, I forgot refute...
>
> Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> Before you buy.
I have my MCSE. I bought it for fl. 5,- at Wehkamp. (That's a dutch
mail-order store)
--
¨I live!¨
¨I hunger!¨
¨Run, coward!¨
-- The Sinistar
------------------------------
From: Nathaniel Jay Lee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Do not like Windows but ...
Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 14:37:25 -0500
Pedro Iglesias wrote:
>
> > Isn't *Choice* wonderful? You can have your overpriced software that
> > *YOU* like, I can have the free or cheap software the *I* like! So, what
> > your point? That everyone sould use MS software because *you* like some
> > of the applications it runs???
>
> Before answering to you ... tell me, what's this group for ?
Well, I would assume from the name it's for advocacy of Linux. But,
judging by what I've seen since reading in it, it is totally for Windows
people to tell Linux people what worthless pieces of shit they are
because of the system they use. I'm guessing that this is what you want
to hear. Oh yeah, I've already accepted that I'm a worthless idiot, so
you don't need to try that one on me either.
Nathaniel Jay Lee
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
(Since I've tried so hard to negate myself, will I cease to exist?!?)
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (MK)
Crossposted-To:
alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,misc.legal,talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.libertarian,talk.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.economics
Subject: Re: Microsoft Ruling Too Harsh
Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 19:44:45 GMT
On Mon, 26 Jun 2000 09:26:05 -0500, Nathaniel Jay Lee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>> >is my argument. If you go out of your way to change the circumstances I
>> >am talking about, you are arguing around the problem, and not facing the
>> >real situation I am trying to show you. Even if I purchased a machine a
>> >year or more ago with a formatted/unformatted/non-loaded drive I would
>> >have had to pay MS for the priveledge of buying a computer.
>>
>> No you would not. You could have found vendors selling you PC without
>> OS installed, couldn't you?
>
>Dell/Gateway/Micron/etc. were selling PCs with formatted hard drives,
>but you still had to pay the MS tax. That is a fact. You can step
>around it all you want, but it is a fact.
And other vendors, esp. smaller ones did not. In fact, I have never had problem
buying bare PC without paying "MS tax". That is a fact, too and you can step
around it all you want, but it is a fact.
>They themselves did not like
>it, but it was strongarmed by MS so that they (MS) would always get
>paid, for every machine said companies were selling.
I'd say that they were rather happy to get the discount and ignore
loss of really marginal number of customers.
MK
---
Involuntary redistribution is theft in coating of hypocrisy.
------------------------------
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [JOB] Debian installer needed near Ft. Lauderdale, Florida.
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.misc,comp.os.linux.setup
Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 17:00:09 GMT
Reply-To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
This employment offer that you present lacks credibility.
A few reasons for this opinion are:
You use of the term "peecee" for the common computer term "PC" (Personal
Computer) this may be the result of lack of experince in the computer field,
OR you are attempting to present yourself as different persona then your
true identity.
There is a Hollywood, Florida near Ft. Lauderdale, Florida, your wording of
the locations makes it seem as though you are trying to appear less familiar
with the area than you in fact may be.
Then there is the ISP factor. Someone with a less than critical eye may
read your offer and think that you are located in Florida. However, I
believe you are located in the New York state in or near New York City.
Your email address is from Netmonger Communications, which is a small ISP
based in Bellmore NewYork. Netmonger Communications is so small or starved
for resources that it not able to provide a second authortive DNS server on
its own hosts. It's second authoritive DNS server is a DNS server run on a
host of Telecon Communications/Superior Net. Telecon Communications/Superior
Net is another ISP based in New York, in this case Johnstown New York.
However, you didn't connect to the internet through either of those ISP's.
Your connection was established through a third ISP located in New York
City, by the name of PANIX Public Access Networks Corporation. This ISP has
local dialup numbers for New York City, some other areas in New York outside
of New York City, and some area of New Jersey as well.
Your offer specifies Debian for your Linux distribution, you have
crossposted your offer into three Linux newsgroups but into none of the
debian specific newsgroups. Also since you are seeking professional and/or
expert support, there are newsgroups where you can advertise for the
services of computer consultants, you also did not crosspost into those
newsgroups either.
There is one more thing that can cause someone to doubt your offer's
credibility. This offer of yours is the only usenet newsgroup posting you
have made to date with this identity. This makes it appear that you may
have just created this on-line identity of [EMAIL PROTECTED] for the purpose
to make this one offer, perhaps for some ulterior motive.
These are some of the reasons that I find your offer to not be credible.
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:8j4e4c$q2k$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> We have need of a person who can install Debian on an IBM Aptiva peecee.
> This is a one shot install. The peecee is in a place called something
like
> "Hollywood", which is near Ft. Lauderdale, Florida.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Old News Reader <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
------------------------------
From: Brian Langenberger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Do not like Windows but ...
Date: 26 Jun 2000 19:43:05 GMT
Pedro Iglesias <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
: nowadays :
: winamp is better than xmms or whatever on Linux
How, exactly? For just playing mp3s, xmms or mpg123 certainly
suffice. Too bad xmms is such an oddball X client.
: word is better than startoffice or whatever on Linux (wordperfect,
: abiword, ...)
And LaTeX is better than Word. So I'd much rather use LaTeX in
an environment that comes with a good text editor and good
command-line facilities.
: multimedia and games are better than on Linux
Games are best served by dedicated devices - consoles.
Multimedia is a bit vague, but Windows has more plugins at
present.
: photoshop is better than GIMP (besides at Windows there are a lot of good
: ones)
And at a considerably higher price. Photoshop is beyond just about
everybody's budget for a single app.
: mame goes better (DOS or Windows) than Linux one
MAME32 is dreadful. The DOS version suffers from all the limitations
of DOS and requires quite a bit of effort to recompile if you want to
enable certain drivers. X-MAME is easy to recompile to enable such
drivers and works on many more systems.
: explorer is better than netscape
There are no good web browsers as yet.
Explorer just happens to suck less than Netscape.
: eudora is better than whichever Linux program
Eh? Eudora is a nice POP3 client, but Linux has no shortage
of equally nice mail readers of its own. Most of which aren't
POP3 clients, however - not that it needs them.
: outlook express is better than whatever Linux news reader
News readers are another thing Linux has no shortage of.
I consider many of them to be better than Outlook Express,
which makes the comparison a matter of taste.
: development tools are much more better under Windows
Such as? Do any of these tools make cross-platform development
easier, or are they Windows-only tools? Do they come bundled
with the OS? Do I have to pay extra for the privilege of
writing my own apps?
: what does remain ?
How about specifics about just what, exactly, you have a problem with.
Your primary complaint seems to be a lack of desire to actually do
anything with Linux since you prefer to use Windows. But that's
not our problem.
: yeah, Linux is very cheap and very stable and very secure (depends on
: administator),
: but, what to use it for nowadays that can't be done more productively under
: Windows ?
I ask myself, "what do I need Windows for nowadays that I can't do more
productively under Linux?" I can't think of anything, and so I have
no use for Windows. To each his own, I guess.
------------------------------
From: Nathaniel Jay Lee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: OS's ...
Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 14:45:07 -0500
Pedro Iglesias wrote:
> When Word won Wordperfect, it was not the dominant one, so it
> won 'cause it was better. Besides, it mind me bollocks if Microsoft
> split or not, Windows will be the dominant OS for a while. Tell me
> a company that does not try to beat the rivals, come on.
>
Once again the revisionists history. Word won because if an OEM shipped
a copy of WordPerfect MS would hike the hell out of said OEMs licensing
costs on the OS, however, if they shipped a pre-bundled version of Word
they would get a break on Windows licensing. It certainly wasn't
because Word was the superior product.
Nathaniel Jay Lee
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
(Oh yeah, almost forgot. For the Wintrolls in the audience: I already
know I'm an idiot. Thanks for your concern.)
------------------------------
From: Cihl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Lost Cause Theater!!!
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.admin.networking,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 19:51:21 GMT
Don't quote the entire way-too-long-post and add one lame-remark line,
PLEASE!
--
¨I live!¨
¨I hunger!¨
¨Run, coward!¨
-- The Sinistar
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Thorne digest, volume 2451720
Crossposted-To:
comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 12:50:50 GMT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Today's Thorne digest:
1> Prove it, if you think you can.
1>
1> Don't you know?
1>
1> Irrelevant.
1>
1> Illogical.
1>
1> Are you taking illogic lessons from Eric "Master of
1> Illogic" Bennett again?
1>
1> Balderdash.
1>
1> See what I mean?
1>
1> Typical erroneous and unsubstantiated claim.
1>
1> Unnecessary.
1>
1> > 2> Typical lack of specificity.
1> >
1> > What is "specificity", Thorne?
1>
1> Don't you know?
I see you're engaging in alteration of what I wrote, Thorne. Here's
what really transpired:
] 2> Typical lack of specificy.
]
] What is "specificy", Thorne?
Dishonesty isn't going to help you, Thorne.
1> Prove it, if you think you can.
1>
1> How ironic.
1>
1> Are you taking irony lessons from Tholenbot again?
1>
1> Prove it, if you think you can.
1>
1> Prove it, if you think you can.
1>
1> You erroneously presuppose the existence of lies, Dave.
1>
1> On what basis do you make this claim?
1>
1> Incorrect. Taking posing lessons from Malloy, Tholen?
1>
1> Yet another example of your pontification.
1>
1> Classic invective.
1>
1> Don't you know?
1>
1> Don't you know?
1>
1> Prove it, if you think you can.
1>
1> Incorrect.
1>
1> Don't you know?
1>
1> Classic invective.
1>
1> Balderdash.
1>
1> Argument by repetition? How typical.
1>
1> Incorrect.
1>
1> Balderdash.
1>
1> Don't you know?
1>
1> Incorrect.
1>
1> Incorrect.
1>
1> Balderdash.
1>
1> See what I mean?
1>
1> Open your eyes, Dave.
1>
1> Classic invective, laced with irony.
1>
1> Don't you know?
1>
1> Prove it, if you think you can.
1>
1> Typical invective, laced with irony.
1>
1> You're erroneously presupposing the existence of lies, Dave.
1>
1> Don't you know?
1>
1> Open your eyes, Dave.
1>
1> Incorrect.
1>
1> Prove it, if you think you can.
1>
1> On what basis do you make this claim?
1>
1> Prove it, if you think you can.
1>
1> Don't you know?
1>
1> Don't you know?
1>
1> On what basis do you make this claim?
1>
1> Don't you know?
1>
1> Don't you know?
1>
1> Don't you know?
1>
1> Typical erroneous and unsubstantiated claim.
1>
1> Incorrect.
2> The Tholenator tholed at full tholeniscity:
2>
2> Posting for entertainment purposes again, Dave? How typical.
2>
2> Don't you know?
2>
2> Prove it, if you think you can.
2>
2> You're erroneously presupposing the presense of an explanation.
2>
2> Meanwhile, where is your logical argument? Why, nowhere to be
2> seen!
3> The Tholenator tholenated:
3>
3> Irrelevant.
3>
3> Don't you know?
3>
3> Prove it, if you think you can.
3>
3> You're erroneously presupposing the presense of an explanation.
3> Are you taking posting lessons from Joe Malloy again?
------------------------------
From: "Joe Malloy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Tholen digest, volume 2451719.328^-.00000000000006
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 14:53:00 GMT
Here's another digestification of Tholen. Note how he avoids the issue of
the his obligation to understand fully his obligation. He clearly lies when
he claims that he "ignored [me] for over a year" and I did not reciprocate.
He thinks that mere act fulfilled the terms of my offer! Sancta
simplicitas!. So Tholen tholens another pointless "digest," but we've come
to expect pointlessness from Tholen. Herewith the entire substance which
Tholen adds:
( -- 0 -- )
Thanks for reading!
--
"USB, idiot, stands for Universal Serial Bus. There is no power on the
output socket of any USB port I have ever seen" - Bob Germer
------------------------------
From: "Joe Malloy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Tholen digest, volume 2451720.635^-.00000000055
Crossposted-To:
comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 14:52:36 GMT
Tholen tholens another pointless "digest," but we've come to expect
pointlessness from Tholen. Herewith the entire substance which Tholen adds:
( -- 0 -- )
Thanks for reading!
--
"USB, idiot, stands for Universal Serial Bus. There is no power on the
output socket of any USB port I have ever seen" - Bob Germer
------------------------------
From: "Joe Malloy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Tholen digest, volume 2451720.547^-.0000000037
Crossposted-To:
comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 14:52:42 GMT
Tholen tholens another pointless "digest," but we've come to expect
pointlessness from Tholen. Herewith the entire substance which Tholen adds:
( -- 0 -- )
Thanks for reading!
--
"USB, idiot, stands for Universal Serial Bus. There is no power on the
output socket of any USB port I have ever seen" - Bob Germer
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Leslie Mikesell)
Subject: Re: Would a M$ Voluntary Split Save It?
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 13:21:41 GMT
In article <BN655.21963$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Daniel Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> >Well, if you are going to rely on the internal inplementation
>> >details of NT, you can't be too shocked when this happens.
>>
>> Yes, this is precisely why wire protocols are the correct
>> level of interoperability.
>
>Hmm?
>
>Are you saying that wire protocols are teh correct level of
>interoperability *because* they leave you dependant on
>internal implementation details, so you break more
>easily?
No, MS supplies enough broken products - you clearly don't need
interoperability for that.
>Surely you don't mean *that*.
Correct, what I mean is that by using standard wire
protocols you gain the ability to use any implementation
you want, under any vendor's OS, changing either end
separately.
>[snip]
>> >They made no such attempt. They merely trying to make Java
>> >a useful Windows-development tool *as well* as as
>> >cross-platform boondoggle.
>>
>> Right... It was just accidental that if you built something
>> in J++ it wouldn't run even under Windows as an applet
>> under Netscape. Sure it was.
>
>This just isn't reailty.
Perhaps it has been changed after the uproar. It was
the reality when we used it. There was no indication
that it was not going to work with Netscape.
>J++ could build portable *and* nonportable classes.
I didn't do this myself so I'm not sure I am describing
it correctly, but the impression I got was that you
had to give up the visual tools that were the main
reason for using it in the first place to do portable
code.
>[snip]
>> >I think you underestimate the intelligence of Windows programmers;
>> >we're clever enough to know the different between portable
>> >stuff and Windows specific stuff.
>>
>> No, I've seen it firsthand. The guy in the next office spent
>> weeks building a java applet under J++ that for no obvious reason
>> would not work under Netscape. Then days finding out how he had been
>> tricked.
>
>Okay, so there is at least one Windows programmer who writes
>cross-platform code but doesn't bother to find out what's portable
>and what isn't.
Java, by definition is portable. The problem was that the MS
version wasn't really java, even though it was represented
as such.
>I stand corrected.
When we tracked down what was really happening we found that
many others had made the same mistake. And MS was in the
courts, again...
>I nevertheless cling to the notion that most of them, when they want
>to write portable code, do check. It's not like you wouldn't have to
>with any *other* Java tool.
No, it is really sad that you think an MS programmer should
automatically expect his programming tools to be broken.
Visual Cafe had no similar problem at all. We developed
both applets that worked correctly across platforms and
server-side servlets that ran the same on both NT and
Linux servers with it, just copying the compiled byte
code around.
>[snip]
>I don't think the authors of the Sherman act ever
>envisioned it being used in a market where virtually
>everyone has a 'monopoly' over some niche or other.
>They were thinking of commodity markets; and oil
>in particular, as I understand it.
'Niche' products don't end up on every desktop in the
country and as a side effect control what you see as
you connect to the internet.
Les Mikesell
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
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