Linux-Advocacy Digest #383, Volume #27 Wed, 28 Jun 00 15:13:06 EDT
Contents:
Re: Linux is junk ("James Bond")
Re: MCSE :-) (was: Lost Cause Theater) ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Linux, easy to use? (Pete Goodwin)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "James Bond" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux is junk
Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 20:29:35 +0200
Rex,
Must compliment you on a very balanced reply. No, you did not "eat" this
troll, but you make a very good case for Linux.
James
"R.E.Ballard ( Rex Ballard )" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:8jbmcs$bv9$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> Yum, Yum, delicious little troll. Rex likes to eat Microsoft Trolls.
>
> > Linux is a stinkin', steamin' pile of shit as far as I am concerned.
>
> I can't tell you how much I admire your poetic and articulate style.
> I had no Idea that Microsoft was recruiting from Trailer Parks now.
>
> > I wasted $40 on Corel Office and wish I
> > could get my hard earned money back!
>
> I'm actually willing to make that offer, but there are some
> preconditions. First, you need to install Mandrake 7.0 Linux
> or SuSE 6.4 Linux, use it for 90 days, for at least 20 hours a
> week, learning something new each hour (not just cruising the web
> using Netscrape).
>
> > I also wasted another $60 on Partition Magic, like Corel suggested.
>
> Good suggestion, helps you clean up after making really stupid
> mistakes.
>
> > First off the piece of shit destroyed my
> > hard drive and erased 2 years worth
> > of data I had saved.
>
> You did back things up. That's good. Did you defrag the disk
> before installing partition magic (like they suggested)?
>
> Did you let each shrink operation progress to completion?
> (I've corrupted a hard drive by interrupting a move or resize
> in the middle of an operation (kicked the plug loose by accident).
>
> Did you try to shrink too much?
>
> Windows does nasting things when you fill the partition completely.
> It realizes that it has written beyond the size of the partition
> AFTER it's clobbered your Linux partition (leave a cylinder of
> blank space between the Windows partition and the Linux partition.
> Things work better.
>
> > Lucky for me I have a backup on CD but it is
> > a couple of days old.
>
> Give the man a cigar! I have heard from more than one person
> who "didn't need no backup" - even when you're just running
> Windows, you need back-up.
>
> > The install kept failing over and over
> > again dying on my SCSI controller
> > but finally, and mysteriously it
> > worked despite my not changing
> > anything.
>
> Let's see, SCSI can be really fun, especially when your trying to
> install using an IDE modular kernel without loading the modules.
> Mandrake, SuSE, and RedHat have some very explicit instructions
> regarding the installation to SCSI drives. It does require a second
> floppy if your booting from floppies, and a menu choice (you actually
> have to read the prompts).
>
> Did you ever call for help?
>
> Did you get support from the OEM?
>
> Did you check to make sure you were using Compatible hardware?
>
> Did you attempt to find out if you knew anyone who had used
> Linux?
>
> > My sound card didn't work.
>
> Which card? Your sound card worked with Windows because the OEM
> made sure that the correct drivers were provided. Microsoft probably
> made the OEM sign a nondiclosure that effectively prevented them from
> porting to Linux and disclosing enough technical information to create
> Linux drivers.
>
> On the other hand, there are 20 sound chips that are supported by
> Linux, and there are ways of finding out which chip your machine
> is using and which driver to select from the installation menu.
>
> > My video card ran slow as a snail.
>
> You probably didn't know which video chip you were using, and it
> assumed you were using SVGA with no accellerators. This is the
> safest configuration, especially when you have carefully shopped
> for the most incompatible card available. As a good WinTroll,
> you would have carefully chosen hardware NOT listed in the
> compatibility list, this would allow you to make claims that
> Linux Users would find hard to believe, and if someone called you
> a Liar, you could THEN divulge the kludge-works nightmere you
> specially configured to make Linux look ugly.
>
> I'm not a big fan of the Corel Install, but at you're having too
> many problems to be using any conventional hardware.
>
> > My network card didn't work.
>
> Let's see, you tried to pick the most incompatible card you could.
> Obviously any NE-2000 would be right out. Did you try to use a
> Card-BUS card on a PCMCIA laptop? How about one of those old
> 3Com cards with their built-in 80186 microprocessor. If you really
> look, you can find a network card that doesn't work with Linux.
>
> > My printer didn't work
>
> Didn't work at all? Or didn't work the way you expected them
> to work. I have a BJC-240, which works in black-and-white using
> the BJ200 driver. Other deskjets work quite well - again,
> there are lists of really nice printers.
>
> I suppose your printer is one of those USB specials with a
> nondisclosure clause that gives Microsoft 20% of the company
> if Linux ever gets a working driver.
>
> > My scanner didn't work.
>
> I've had some problems with Scanners. The HP and the Astra worked
> pretty good. Again, if you really shop, you can find a Microsoft-only
> USB scanner guaranteed not to work. Which one did you find.
>
> > My modem worked but kept disconnecting.Something about a PPP demon
> > dying?
>
> Let me guess, you were using a winmodem which is marginally supported
> by Linux, at speeds that are known not to be supported. PPP made
> the connection, negotiated to 56kb, and then timed out the minute
> Linux got busy (like when you started downloading those animated GIFS).
>
> > All of these devices worked out right away with Windows 98 SE and
> > also with Win2k.
>
> Yes, Windows 98 SE has wonderful USB support, they should, Microsoft
> practically threatened to slit the throats of any USB vendor who
> published the high level specifications to complex interfaces like
> Modems, Scanners, and Multi-color printers.
>
> Linux supports USB protocol, but that's like supporting TCP/IP without
> knowing the nature of HTML protocol, and having a hard time getting
> information because anyone who knows about HTML knows that if they
> are caught talking with you, they will suffer horrible consequences.
>
> > Linux has been around longer than Win2k, so why the shitty hardware
> > support?
>
> Just curious, have you tried installing Windows 98 on a VLB machine?
> How about an MCA machine, or an EISA machine? Microsoft used a rather
> complex web of Nondisclosure agreements to keep Linux "Plug-and-Play"
> from getting access to Microsoft's "Plug-n-Play" PCI protocols.
>
> It took about 18 months for Adaptec to break ranks and provide
> the information to Red Hat.
>
> > Shitpile Linux didn't even recognize my USB ports.
>
> Well, of course, you put 5 peripherals on a port exdender hub and
> use peripherals that use the most closely guarded exchange protocols
> (sufficiently complex to be nonintuitive, to assure no
> reverse-engineering or "Clean-Room" implementations.
>
> Give us about 6 months.
>
> By the way, the SANE (Scanner Access Now Easy) utility solves many of
> the USB problems. Several USB devices are supported, it's just not
> part of the "Standard Install" (since probing for USB devices that
> aren't there can take a while).
>
> > Is this Linux stuff some kind of a joke or something?
>
> > I'd like to be let in on the joke please because I have
> > lost data and wasted the better part
> > of the weekend trying to make this smelly piece of trash work.
>
> WOW! You spent a WHOLE WEEKEND learning to be a Linux GURU with
> absolutely no help from anyone at all?
>
> And you've been using Windows 98 for two years, Windows 95 for three
> years before that, and Windows 3.1 for 4 years before that. I would
> guess you spent more time, and got more help sorting out the Windows
> 2000 release BEFORE you installed it, than you spent doing the actual
> Linux installation on your carefully configured "Linux Proof" box.
>
> You picked a distribution designed primarily for installation on
> your "Economy home machines" (IDE, Parallel ports, ISA modem, S3 or
> I128 video, and Celeron or AMD processor) and tried to install it
> on something that appears from your description to be a cross between
> a server and a video game machine (SCSI, USB, and a Voodoo Video card?)
>
> Obviously, if you really wanted more help, you would have provided
> some details about your system (like which of the 18 Linux compatible
> video cards DIDN'T you use, which of the 100 Linux compatible video
> cards DIDN'T you use, and which of the 50 Linux compatible scanners
> didn't you use...).
>
> Of course, we'd really LOVE to know EXACTLY what you were running
> so that we can provide you with SOLUTIONS to your PROBLEMS. But
> you might have to get a waiver of your nondisclosure agreement
> from Billy before you tell us anything really significant.
>
> > I played around with the various applications
> > included with Corel and
> > quite frankly, it looks like Linux is
> > some 1980's throw back. Reminds
> > me of Pong and Visicalc.
>
> Wow! You spent MOST OF YOUR WEEKEND trying to get the wrong hardware
> together to blow away the Linux installation (blowing away most of your
> personal information as well) ended up accidentally getting the safest
> possible working configuration (SCSI in safe, linear mode, SVGA in
> 256 color mode, and no accellerators) and then you actually found time
> to play with the GNOME spreadsheet? I'm really impressed!
>
> You know, I couldn't even run most of the modern Windows applications
> in 256 color mode? And forget trying to run Windows 98 on a REAL
> SVGA card.
>
> > I can see no way in hell that this piece of sewerage can be given to
> > people who are happily running Windows.
>
> Well, I certainly hope that we wouldn't just throw a piece of dead
> beef into a room full of Hindi. You are the perfect example of how
> Linux SHOULDN'T be marketed:
>
> Tell your most rabid "Softee" that he's an idiot unless he loads
> Linux this weekend,
>
> you really want to make sure that he completly
> upset with you and totally determined to prove you wrong.
>
> Then don't make any suggestions as to which distribution to use, let
> him figure it out for himself.
>
> Better yet, make a reccommendation that completely ignores
> the fact that his entire system depends on SCSI, USB, and
> Voodoo cards that are not supported by the Debian
> distribution (Corel) for political reasons.
>
> Next, make sure that he has no way of reaching you and asking
> for help (a weekend sailing in the rockies might do it).
>
> Give him a self-burned CD-ROM so that there is no way he can
> call a telephone help-desk to get installation and configuration
> support. And tell him exactly how much the full distribution
> with 90 day installation and configuration support will cost,
> so that he will know how much he would have "blown" if he didn't
> use your "cheap-bytes" copy.
>
> Set his expections as high as possible. Tell him all he has to
> do is put in the CD-ROM, turn on the machine, and everything
> will install itself, all he has do to is close his eyes and hit
> the return key a few times.
>
> Finally, when he comes back from a weekend that didn't go as
> smoothly as you described, tell him he's a liar and an idiot.
>
> > No way.
> >
> > Linux just plain stinks.
>
> Actually, given the way you were introduced to Linux, I can certainly
> understand your feelings. I was lucky, and like most Linux users, I
> had a friend who helped me get my first Linux machine going. We each
> downloaded two floppies a night and by the end of a month, we had the
> whole distribution loaded and running it all of it's glory.
>
> This was back in 1983, when Soft Landing Systems gave you the
> option of "Free Download", "$200 Ammo Box", or "$100 CD". I
> quickly paid the $100 for the CD (I really didn't want to
> play "floppy fumble" through another 100 floppies. These days,
> a complete Linux distribution would fill over 1500 floppies.
>
> > It is like a full lower bowel that needs to be purged.
>
> You certainly got a "Linux enema". I don't know if you really
> intended to be a troll, or if you were just that badly informed.
> I'm going to trust that it was the latter.
>
> The reality is that learning Linux is like learning any other new
> technology. It's actually a bit like learning to drive a stick-shift.
>
> When you first get started, you need to start out in a safe environment
> (a machine configured to be "Linux Receptive" at least). There are
> a wide variety of PCs, Video cards, peripherals, and drives that
> will give you a reasonably good first experience of Linux. If you
> really are running a "Linux-proof" machine, you might want to consider
> buying or salvaging a used machine. You'll probably want at least
> a 486/50 with at least 16 meg of RAM and an S3 video card. If you
> want a really nice machine, a K5, Celeron, or Pentium machine with
> anything over 100 megahertz, an I128 card with 4 meg, and 32 meg of
> RAM will be "deluxe". You will want some storage - A gig for the
> first experience is usually good enough for an introduction. A simple
> IDE drive is reccommended.
>
> As for the modem, get an ISA modem. And a classic Soundblaster
> or compatible is perfect for a first Linux multimedia experience.
>
> Try and find some friends who have installed Linux successfully.
> Usually, they can do in an hour or two what might take you several
> days to sort out. With luck, they'll pass on some of the "Tricks".
> Ideally, you should push the keyboard and buttons as they tell you
> what choices to make (this helps you learn to install it yourself).
>
> My dad tried Corel and was having problems. He finally picked up
> a copy of Mandrake got on the phone with me, and I talked him through
> the installation in two 20 minute calls. Today, he likes Linux, and
> he still likes Windows too. My brother Loves Linux and pretty much
> only boots Windows when he needs to convert a fussy Office document to
> RTF.
>
> > The only plus i got from my short lived
>
> You will have to admit, 10-15 hours, with no tech support, on a machine
> that was obviously not designed to be friendly to the novice Linux
> installer, is not a legitimate basis for a comparison with a system
> that it's pretty obvious that you have been using for several years
> now.
>
> Let's face it, unless you're about 6 years old, and living in the
> poorest part of a rural area, you've probably been interacting with
> Windows, or watching others interact with Windows for at least 2-3
> years. And your language is far too adult to be that of a 6 year-old.
>
> > experience with Linux is that
>
> You got a shock treatment. Someone told you to try Linux, you went
> to CompUSA, figured you'd save a few bucks by buying the WordPerfect
> Office package that came with a complimentary version of Linux (no
> phone support), and figured you'd have it up in an hour or two on
> a machine that is clearly not a novice machine (You don't see many
> home PCs running SCSI hard drives).
>
> There's a good chance that with the right telephone or friend support,
> that you could be up and running on Linux is a few hours on your
> existing hardware.
>
> > I will surely let all my enemies know
> > about it so they can have their
> > systems destroyed like I have.
>
> Actually, it sounds like someone did this to you. I'd much
> rather that you didn't try to promote yourself as a anyone
> who had any actual experience with Linux, since it's clear
> that you haven't had any actual experience of Linux.
>
> At best, you've managed to achieve the remarkable accomplishment
> of installing Linux on a very sophisticated machine designed based
> on Microsoft's most proprietary and closely guarded technology.
> This is a bit like shooting a 65 the first time you ever play
> golf on a par-5 course. And we're talking all 18 holes.
>
> > How you tell it is stable?
>
> Somehow, in spite of your worst efforts, you actually managed
> to get the core system into a minimally functional state.
>
> There's a pretty good chance that if you had a friend who
> could walk you through the configuration process, you could
> get a nice, fast, stable system configured in a few hours.
>
> > First you have to get it running.
>
> True. Most of us in the Linux community would love to see the day
> when you can get your computer from CompUSA or Circuit City, or
> ordered off the Web, or however you order it, and when you boot
> it up, you get a nice friendly display asking if you'd like to boot
> Linux or Windows. If you boot Linux, you would then be offered the
> option of running either VMWare or Wine. Everything would be
> completely configured so that you lose nothing by running Linux,
> and at the same time, have a whole new set of possibilities that
> weren't there before.
>
> > Sorry, I drained one toner cartridge printing out how to papers.
>
> Actually, there are some very fine books that cover most of these
> topic at your local Barne's & Knoble's, Borders, or Walden bookstore.
> In fact, at last count, a suburban New Jersey bookstore had over
> 300 titles related to Linux. The Borders at WTC had over 500 titles.
> Some of them were about UNIX (but applied to Linux), others were
> about languages, utilities, and specific configuration tools. And
> several were actually commercial applications disguised as books.
>
> > Not to mention when the damn printer went beserk trying to print using
> > Lie-nux and it spit out page after page with one ascee charactor on
> > each and no means other than shutting it off to stop it.
>
> I know what you did. Congratulations, you had applications trying to
> print to your printer, but you just didn't have the "raw" filter set
> up. Again, ask for help, you may find that there are many who are
> eager to help out.
>
> > Who writes these things anyway?
>
> Californians and Bostonians (Greater Boston Area). The BSD
> documentation wreaks of the San Francisco Bay area, and the
> MIT documentation (how-tos, InfoTex, emacs,...) are very
> New-England.
>
> > They seem to have a language all their
> > own and it is not english, french
> > or german which I am fluent in.
>
> Well, I don't know about your french or your german, but
> your english is certainly colorful and rustic, a touch of
> that texas-arkansas-oklahoma redneck that you wouldn't
> say to your mother, but you'd publish to 20,000 people.
>
> > Never even looked at a readme for windows.
>
> You didn't need to. The OEM did all of the work for you. They
> engineered the hardware and drivers to Microsoft's strict
> (nondisclosure protected) specifications, they delivered their
> drivers (source code and all in many cases) to Microsoft for
> certification, they paid a premium (advanced sales, minimum
> guarantees, exclusion of competitors, service guarantees,...)
> to have their drivers included on the Microsoft Windows 98
> release, and the OEMs who didn't make it on the first release
> made it on the SE release.
>
> And Microsoft very carefully included about 20 very specific
> clauses that contracturally prevented the OEMs from installing
> both Linux and Windows on the same box, that prevented OEMs from
> publishing device drivers for Linux, that prevented them from
> providing information to the Open Source community that would enable
> ports to Linux, and prevented them from loading applications that
> could also be run on Linux (such as Corel products, StarOffice, or
> Netscape).
>
> In August of 1998, Microsoft was appealing for the "Right to Innovate"
> (including the right to create contracts that blocked the innovations
> of others). In August of 1999, the biggest OEMs like Dell and IBM
> refused to accept terms that prevented them from selling Linux
> powered machines including Servers, Workstations, and Laptops.
>
> In August of 2000, Microsoft's contractural activities will be
> watched through telescopes and microscopes. Microsoft will do
> everything it can to flaunt the attitude that it is above the law
> without actually risking a retroactive judgement that could involve
> criminal charges for Bill Gates, Steve Ballmer, and "Mr Windows"
> Alchin. Microsoft will bluster and threaten, but when CEOs ask
> for a digitally signed e-mail, followed confirmation by fax from
> Bill Gates and Steve Ballmer themselves, Microsoft will probably
> be letting quite a few OEMs start calling their own shots, like
> dual-boot systems that run both Windows AND Linux.
>
> > Windows has no equal...
>
> I would say that Windows 2000 is ALMOST as nice as Linux was last
> year, but then again, I'm qualified to make that assessment, since
> I have experience with both systems. Linux is still missing some
> applications (LIKE LOTUS NOTES!!!). But these days, Wine, VMWare,
> and improved emulation have been handling many of those problems.
>
> > At least not yet....
>
> Nope, maybe by Windows 2002, they will actually have a system
> that's almost as reliable, flexible, and functional as UNIX or
> Linux.
>
> > Linux is a bomb..........
>
> You had a really rotten 10-15 hours. Do you really believe that this
> qualifies you to come to an international forum and make an
> authoritative statement of any kind that has any credibility?
>
> I'd really love to see you impress me. Come back in 3 months,
> tell me how you used Linux every day for 8-10 hours/day learned
> to use PERL and Apache to create and manage you own web enabled
> document archive populated with documents you created using a Linux
> Office Suite, and found ways to communicate via IRC-II using voice,
> text, video, and that you've tried 100 of the best commercial
> applications available for Linux for several hours each. Tell me
> how you generated 5000 pages for your website using filters that
> generated web pages from your e-mail and news posts. And tell me
> how you organized them using scripts that let you scan all 5000
> in a matter of minutes, gave you an indexed search engine, and
> generated a table of contents which users use to navigate through
> all of those documents in a matter of seconds.
>
> Then tell me how you got this for under $200 and how it ran on
> a PC you purchased at a pawn shop for $200.
>
> And AFTER you've said all that, if you really want to tell me
> how much BETTER Windows is in terms of overall value, performance,
> flexibility, features, and capabilities, I'll want to hear your
> basis for that assumption.
>
> I'll concede that Windows is easier to LEARN! That is, if there are
> still 5,000 rednecks in some cactus town west of waco and south of
> Santa Fe who have never used a PC before, they could probably walk
> up to Windows 2000, loaded with $2000 worth of software, and actually
> get to the point where they could create a ransom note to mom on word,
> a pretty picture on powerpoint, and might even be able to use excel
> to graph the growth of 5 cows. That's believable. Heck, they might
> even get all that done before they crashed the system. With Windows
> 2000.
>
> The fact is that my son was running computers since he was 6 years old,
> and my daughter was "keyboarding" in first grade. Not only can they
> work the internet, but they have more than enough innate skill to
> learn a $60 operating system like Linux.
>
> Does this mean that either of them will take Linux apart, introduce
> a new quantum algorythm, and push it back up to Linus in their first
> 30 days? Absolutely not! But my son has already created a little
> web site on his Linux box. Yes, he got some help from one of his
> school buddies, and yes, he had a little help from me getting it
> installed. Which is exactly my point.
>
> > Jerry Butler
>
> --
> Rex Ballard - Open Source Advocate, Internet
> I/T Architect, MIS Director
> http://www.open4success.com
> Linux - 90 million satisfied users worldwide
> and growing at over 5%/month!
>
>
> Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: MCSE :-) (was: Lost Cause Theater)
Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 18:32:28 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Cihl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Jens Prüfer wrote:
> >
> > Martijn Bruns wrote:
> >
> > [...]
> > >
> > > My productivity is just fine, thank you.
Your productivity would
> > > probably be brought to nil, because you
probably took five years
> > > to get your MCSE. MCSE is a course to learn
how to move your
> > > mouse to exactly the right spot and click,
nothing more. You
> > > probably need followup-courses to learn how
to use the other
> > > mouse button, too. I've seen one of the
involved books from a
> > > family member. It's really a joke, ok?
> >
> > Finally somebody else who agrees with me
here. I had a look at some MCSE
> > "training" Books and thought about what kind
of illiterate people they
> > must be made for. Incredible. Why do they
call themselves "engineer"
> > after that?? There should be a law against
that. At least in Europe
> > engineering is something else.
>
> That's not even the worst! How about the fact
that those MCSE
> certifications are only valid as long as
Microsoft rules the computer
> industry!
>
> I for one wouldn't want that kind of security.
I suggest to all the
> MCSE's out there that they get a *real*
certification as soon as
> possible. With this i mean a real, complete
education, like a college
> degree in Information Technology and such.
>
> I really can't help thinking about what would
happen to these people
> if Microsoft ever hits the bucket.
>
> --
> ¨I live!¨
> ¨I hunger!¨
> ¨Run, coward!¨
> -- The Sinistar
>
WHY DONT YOU SHUT UP AND STOP TALKING OUT OF YOUR
BACKSIDE.THE BOOKS YOU PROBABLY SAW WERE NOT
DESIGNED TO HELP YOU PASS - THEY WERE SOLD JUST
TO MAKE MONEY FOR THE PUBLISHERS. THE NEXT TIME
YOU ARE AT A BOOKSTORE HAVE A LOOK A "REAL MANS"
MSCE OR CNE BOOK IF YOU HAVE GOT THE GUTS -
MASTERING NT SERVER OR MASTERING NETWARE 5. BOTH
ARE APPROX 1600 PAGES EACH. AND WHEN YOU HAVE
DONE THAT TRY A CCNA MANUAL.
TRY OTHER CERTIFICATIONS.A ORACLE OR SAP
CERTIFICATION WILL WIPE THE FLOOR WITH ANY I.T
DEGREE MODULE.
I WAS ON A HNC/D IN INFORMATION TECHNOLOGY AND IT
MOST OF IT WAS RUBBISH.
THERE WERE SOME REALLY STUPID FULL TIME STUDENTS
WHO WERE JUST COPYING OTHER PEAPLES WORK AND
GIVING IT IN. AND THEY GOT AWAY WITH IT.
I LEARNT FAR MORE MYSELF ABOUT NETWORKING THAN I
WAS TAUGHT AT COLLEGE.
ALL I GOT WAS 160 HOURS OF STUDY IN A MODULE
CALLED DATA COMMUNICATIONS. I DID APPROX 450
HOURS FOR MY MCSE.
IN MY OPINION THE PURPOSE OF SOME UNIVERSITIES IS
JUST TO KEEP ACADEMIC STAFF IN WORK. ALL YOU HAVE
TO DO IS PASS ONE OR TWO EASY ASSIGNMENTS AND ONE
EXAM PER MODULE. PASSMARK = 40%.
THEY GET AWAY WITH IT BECAUSE OF THE UNJUSTIFIED
BIAS FOR DEGREES BY IGNORANT EMPLOYERS.
I HAVE ALSO READ SOME STATS FOR THE U.K (ITNTO
SURVEY 2000)
APPROX TWO THIRDS OF PEAPLE THAT WORK IN I.T DO
NOT HAVE A DEGREE OR HAVE A NON-I.T DEGREE SO WHY
DO YOU NEED A DEGREE AT ALL ?
FOR A REAL NETWORKING JOB MCSE + CNE + CCNA RULE
TO IMPRESS YOUR FRIENDS AND SCARIFICE 3 YEARS
WITHOUT MONEY GET A DEGREE. TO GET YOUR FOOT IN
THE DOOR GET A CERTIFIED FIRST.
ONE OF MY FRIENDS DOES NOT HAVE A I.T DEGREE BUT
HAS AN MCSE + CNE + CCNA. HE EARNS APPROX 70-
80,000 POUNDS PER YEAR - ENOUGH SAID !!!!
SOME JOBS ARE NOW ASKING FOR A DEGREE AND A
CERTIFICATION TO DEMONSTRATE A REAL WORLD WORKING
KNOWLEDGE OF THE PRODUCT AS OPPOSED TO THE
THEORETICAL STUFF TAUGHT ON THE DEGREE ( HOW MANY
THEORETICAL NETWORKS HAVE YOU SEEN ?)
AS NEW PRODUCTS ARE RELEASED OLDER ONES ARE
DISCONTINUED - HENCE THE SHORT SHELF LIFE OF
CERTIFICATIONS BUT AT LEAST EMPLOYERS WILL KNOW
THAT THESE CERTIFICATIONS ARE UP TO DATE UNLIKE A
I.T FROM SAY 10 YEARS AGO. WILL AN EMPLOYER BE
IMPRESSED BY THE FACT YOU LEARNT COBOL,DOS, OR
FORTRAN ?
IT MAY ALSO INTEREST YOU TO KNOW THAT AT LEAST TWO
BRITISH UNIVERSITIES HAVE INCORPORATED THE MCSE
OR CCNA INTO THEIR DEGREE.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Linux, easy to use?
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Pete Goodwin)
Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 19:09:13 GMT
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Gary Hallock) wrote in
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>Actually you said "I tried drag and drop between KDE's Window Manager
>and KDE's Explorer". Perhaps you could enlighten me. What is KDE
>explorer? I assumed you meant the KDE equivalent of Windows explorer.
>But that would be kfm. And what do you mean by Window manager?
>What exactly are you trying to do?
Oops! Sorry, I mean KDE's File Manager (kfm) and KDE's Explorer.
Pete
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