Linux-Advocacy Digest #400, Volume #27 Fri, 30 Jun 00 11:13:06 EDT
Contents:
Nice ("QCC")
C# is a copy of java (Aravind Sadagopan)
Re: Corel Does Nothing To Help The Linux Cause (Aravind Sadagopan)
Re: Uptime 6 months and counting. ("Ferdinand V. Mendoza")
Re: It's all about the microsurfs (Geoff Lane)
Re: Ready for Linux ? The "Furniture Scale" (Sitaram Chamarty)
Re: Do you people really think that GNU/Linux is a great OS? (Geoff Lane)
Re: Richard Stallman's Politics (was: Linux is awesome! (Volker Hetzer)
Re: CommyLinux vs Microsoft (was: Re: Windows98) (Tim Kelley)
Re: Uptime 6 months and counting. (Tim Kelley)
Re: What UNIX is good for. (Tim Kelley)
Re: CommyLinux vs Microsoft (was: Re: Windows98) (Nathaniel Jay Lee)
Re: CommyLinux vs Microsoft (was: Re: Windows98) (Nathaniel Jay Lee)
Re: Why linux sucks and why linux is best (Jim Cameron)
Re: CommyLinux vs Microsoft (was: Re: Windows98) (Jim Cameron)
Re: Lost Cause Theater!!! (Nathaniel Jay Lee)
Re: Lost Cause Theater!!! (Nathaniel Jay Lee)
Re: M$ Exposed (was Re: Oracle's Dirty Tricks Department) ("Arthur L. Rubin")
Re: Linux, easy to use? (Donovan Rebbechi)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "QCC" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Nice
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 11:21:21 +0100
Good to see apache beating the crud out of MS...
http://www.ispreview.co.uk/statistics.shtml
------------------------------
From: Aravind Sadagopan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: C# is a copy of java
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 06:19:06 +0800
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
I happened to read the C# specs and boy how do these people manage to
copy so well. Ill give you
an example
java - import java.lang.System;
C# - using System
java - out.println("hello World");
C# - console.Writeln("hello World");
Same no pointer ,garbage collection, virtual machine stuff is there. And
they have a backward compatiblity to use C pointers called "unsafe"
methods. I don't know what they meant when they siad C# is not meant to
be a competition to Java
Aravind
------------------------------
From: Aravind Sadagopan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Corel Does Nothing To Help The Linux Cause
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 06:23:51 +0800
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Bob Hauck wrote:
> On Wed, 28 Jun 2000 10:43:58 +0100, Sean Akers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
>
> >>But as usual, it's the one rotten apple that spoils the whole
> >>basket. I'd say try SuSE, it's in my opinion the best Linux
> >>distribution available.
>
> I'm pretty impressed with Caldera eDesktop as well.
>
> --
> -| Bob Hauck
> -| Codem Systems, Inc.
> -| http://www.codem.com/
Believe me I have tried many Linux distros. By far Linux Mandrake and
Suse are the best. Suse 6.4 is byfar
the best distribution I have ever tried out. Linux Mandrake seems to
improve with every version . both of these are far better than redhat and
Corel
------------------------------
From: "Ferdinand V. Mendoza" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.os.linux
Subject: Re: Uptime 6 months and counting.
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 15:31:15 +0400
robert3@# wrote:
> On windows, (when I was forced to use one) I am afraid to start more than
> 2 or 2 applications at the same time else it will freeze or crash or
> get hosed somehow.
Two years back... Winblows 98 running on my system suddenly says,
"This program performed an illegal operation , blah-blah-blah..."
There was no other way but to hit the reset button most of the
time until I was pissed off. That drove me to Linux and there's no
turning back.
Ferdinand
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Geoff Lane)
Subject: Re: It's all about the microsurfs
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 10:47:24 +0100
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) writes:
> Proof please? Prepare a list of OEM's who stock low-end computers and
> offer both Windows and non-Windows, but otherwise equivalent, systems, and
> charges $100 more for the equivalently equipped computer with Windows. A
> URL will suffice as evidence.
Go to Microsoft's online "shop". The difference between a Win/NT "Upgrade"
pack and Win/NT pack that will install on a bare machine is $100 and is
almost contant across the entire range of OS products.
--
/\ Geoff. Lane. /\ Manchester Computing /\ Manchester /\ M13 9PL /\ England /\
Smile... people will wonder what you've been up to.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Sitaram Chamarty)
Subject: Re: Ready for Linux ? The "Furniture Scale"
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 12:48:15 GMT
On Thu, 29 Jun 2000 12:16:01 +0100, Martin Fitzpatrick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>Having lurked in this group, I have seen a number of posts from people who
>seem to have installed Linux without realising the cost/benefit map of the
>situation. I have therefore comiled the following "Furniture Scale" as a
>guide to determine whether Linux is likely to be useful to a given person.
>
>Please answer the following multiple choice question.
With all due respect, and most certainly no offense intended, this
is crap.
It took me more than 6 hours to build an "entertainment center"
(for TV, VCR, stereo, etc) from a flat-pack package (Sauder
woodworking). I am useless with my hands, have no stereo-scopic
vision (don't ask!), and am a klutz to boot.
BTW that 6 hours was *with* my wife helping :-)
Using your analogy, that would make me a Windows-guy thru and
thru.
The reality is that I have been using Linux since early 95. Jan
97 I put it on my laptop (long before the current craze started),
and in fact for more than 3 years there was no one else in my
company who even had Linux on their laptop/desktop, let alone used
it exclusively for email, web, et al.
Finally here's something I did almost a year ago and still use
quite often:
http://www.dim.com/~sitaram/linux-live-cd
Hope this helps put your analogy in perspective. Programming or
working with software is almost all brain work. Building
furniture is some brain work, but equal equally various motor
skills, a good "eye", and even, sometimes, physical strength.
PS: For the same reasons as above, I don't touch hardware. Even a
simple memory upgrade or hard disk upgrade I call a friend!
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Geoff Lane)
Subject: Re: Do you people really think that GNU/Linux is a great OS?
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 10:55:13 +0100
In article <zcB45.261874$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
"KLH" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> A true advocate would have to admit:
> * that the Unix model doesn't extend well into the graphical user
> interface
What's the OS go to do with the GUI?
> * that having two competing desktop enviroments will be causing
> inconveniance to users for years.
Pick the best for you and stick with it. When you get to choose from a list
of one you have no choice at all.
> * that perhaps we need to get rid of these middle-level C-like languages
> that make it easier for even great programmers to introduce memory leaks and
> core dumps into large applications that we depend on.
Totally agree. There are far to few good programmers available. The rest
of us (and ALL application writers) should use a safer, higher level
language.
> * that there are so many ways in which GNU/Linux can be improved that it
> would be useful to start over from scratch and design a new OS light years
> ahead of what we have now.
BeOS, QNX, Amoeba, Plan9 etc are all out there but don't attract the same
amount of support for various reasons. Linux kernel however was intended to
be a Unix-like system, not a blue sky research project.
--
/\ Geoff. Lane. /\ Manchester Computing /\ Manchester /\ M13 9PL /\ England /\
Smile... people will wonder what you've been up to.
------------------------------
From: Volker Hetzer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: gnu.misc.discuss
Subject: Re: Richard Stallman's Politics (was: Linux is awesome!
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 13:13:23 +0000
Stefaan A Eeckels wrote:
>
> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> Volker Hetzer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > Stefaan A Eeckels wrote:
> >> Correct. Both management and unions are in unison here, BTW.
> > But the unions didn't press. (AFAIK!)
> I've heard of examples (steel companies in Belgium) where
> management and unions lobbied to stop imports from cheap
> steel. The reasons always sounded nice, and social. And
> truly, even if they wanted to, they could not compete, so
> I understand their attitude.
Ok, those unions are shortsighted. Another example is german coal.
No one really needs it anymore and it should be saved for future uses.
Yet it gets subsidised because of all the jobs. (And *please* don't
mention the EuroFighter!!!)
But those are not the rule. Unions have made really nice deals with the
employers of large companies that made employees get lower wages but
they could keep their jobs.
> >
> >> Nonetheless, management will be less enclined to spend money
> >> on importing foreigners when they're not cheaper than Germans.
> > Why?
> > Some english speaking guy shows up, gets his contract without either
> > one (company/employee) being able to change it a lot and goes to work.
> Are you speaking about fellow Europeans (who have the right to
> work anywhere in the Union), or say, Indians?
In this case I was speaking specifically about indians employed under the
german green card scheme. They've got a minimum wage of DM100000,-
per year. Of course, between showing up and getting his contract there
is the interview. :-) See below.
> When I hear "green card",
> I think about companies forraging abroad, and "sponsoring" people.
Don't know how this works here. I've heard that the easy way for
an indian sw engineer is to go to an indian branch of a german company.
Or companies do advertisements in india. And then there's the internet.
> Usually, these people get restrictive contracts, and are only
> attractive because of lower wages,
Again, 100000 per year isn't low by german standards. And, those
guys are not in a position in which they have to accept a contract
they don't like. We are in direct competition with US, canadian,
british or australian companies that can probably offer better
terms. So, wages are probably going to be higher than this minimum
wage and are just like german contracts (with the same wages in them).
As to legal requirements, everybody who has a working permission
is supposed to get treated alike, whether german or not. I don't believe
that a company looking for employees can affort to be racist in germany
today.
> I'd venture to say that if such is legally impossible, many a
> company (if not most) will not try to import foreign labour.
I think bigger companies will do it more because they've done
international things more often than some small three people
business. But for them, there is no difference between a german with
a (implicit) work permission and a foreigner with a work permission.
> But as far as I can gauge, these are people who are already
> in Germany. Or is your company flying in Indians for your team
> to interview? Then there really _is_ a shortage, I guess.
Those students came from australia. We took the risk of taking
them without an interview. After all they are still sudying and
only do a project here. We got lucky on those three. As to shortage,
before I employ any of the *german* students that I've had lately
(with one exception), I'd rather go headhunting in india.
Unfortunately, chances of our company hiring at all are slim.
But if we do, nationality is really not on our list. Basically
it works like this:
We have to convince our boss to convince his boss to ... the big
boss that we need someone or the company shuts down in three days.
Once we got the ok to hire someone, we can pretty much go about
and choose anyone. Human ressources has (so far) never interfered
in our choice.
[financial difference]
> I can't believe that. I've been hired from abroad, in the early
> '80ies, and it _did_ cost that company a lot of money (sending
> managers to interview people, paying for the plane tickets,
> paying for a hotel until accomodation could be found, paying
> a salary for a couple of months while the new guy was running
> around getting this arranged, etc, etc.).
Lots of paperwork can be done from abroad. The only thing for the
employee is to show up here for an interview. There will be probably
be some haggling over who pays this. IMHO we don't pay this for
germans and I think we wouldn't pay this otherwise as well. But I
could be wrong.
Then again, we always try to employ students who worked here.
Then we don't even need the interview.
> You only do this
> a) if the guy costs you less money over the long term
> b) if you really _are_ desperate, or have non-commercial reasons.
It's really hard to find good people here right now.
[pay, negotiated by unions]
> Unless, due to loopholes in the social legislation, these people
> aren't affected (like they work here, but are paid by their foreign
> company, and fall under foreign law. It's not uncommon).
Yes, but please consider that we are not talking about harvest helpers
from poland. We are talking about people who *know* their worth.
(And still want to work here. It's kind of a contradiction. :-) )
> >> Third, our social system obliges employers to pay more based
> >> on qualifications (even if they're not strictly required for
> >> the job.
> > Ours doesn't. At least not to a relevant degree.
> Nonetheless, older people have tremendous problems trying
> to find work. Are you telling me that they objectively
> are less capable?
No, they fall under the nature conservation law. :-)
Meaning, if you are in a company and are over fifty, you can't be
fired like a 35yr old guy. This is too risky for many employers.
(I'd love to hear about an intelligent solution to this problem.)
[pay difference again]
> It might be better in less regulated industries (typically,
> the computer industry), and there are no unions to speak of
> in (certain) computer outfits. The majority of computer jobs
> is in other types of company (banks, manufacturing), and I
> guess the HR approach would be quite different.
Could be. But they usually state the required qualification
in the advertisement. I suppose (wild guess here), that the pay
is based on that but that's really guessing. Any other german
around here who could put forth an opinion on this?
> >
> > So, around here, the country the guy comes from is largely irrelevant
> > as long as he speeks either german or english.
> > This goes for the green card example *only*.
> I admit I know zip about the German green card scheme, but if it's
> limited to people who take the initiative to travel to Germany at
> their own expense, without guarantees of a job, then I tip my hat
> to them, and would hire any such person on the spot. People that
> motivated are worth their weight in gold.
Agreed. However, if I were an indian I'd fetch me three or four
responses from different companies over the internet and *then* go
spend a three week holiday in germany, including a few job interviews.
> If companies spend money to get them in, then my comments are, I
> think, relevant.
Yup. It wouldn't do to fly in ten people, house them and then select
one.
> No, but I recon a guy perorating on the rights of the workers
> and then taking a seat on the board of an about-to-privatized
> utility qualifies as a self-serving santimonious hypocrite, not?
Depends on whose interests he is going to serve.
> > What's wrong with a union advocating solidarity? At the moment unions
> > across europe try to coordinate actions to counterbalance the "going
> > international" of big companies. What's wrong with that?
> Their words don't match their actions, or didn't you notice?
> It's all hot air.
Again, in germany they've been behaving well during the last ten years.
(hard coal being an exception) At the moment a handful of morons march
around because shutting down the nuke plants will cost jobs, but
they are pretty isolated and I hope the unions settle for a good
pension package.
> > What's wrong with choosing sides? You always have to. And usually you feel
> > good after having done so. Regardless of the publicity.
> Feeling good is the purpose of choosing sides, and it allows you to
> suspend your critical thinking about the issues.
Huh? I thought, one thinks about the issues first and then choose the side
that came out top in ones critical thinking?
> >>[Kohl ]
> [tie joke]
:-)))))
Have a nice weekend!
Volker
--
The early bird gets the worm. If you want something else for
breakfast, get up later.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Tim Kelley)
Subject: Re: CommyLinux vs Microsoft (was: Re: Windows98)
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 13:52:53 GMT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On 29 Jun 2000 19:33:11 -0500, Tim Palmer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>On Wed, 28 Jun 2000 15:47:01 -0500, Nathaniel Jay Lee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>Tim Palmer wrote:
>The Commy's are agenst freedum. Just look at any Commy cuntry.
>
>Then look at how all Lie-nux Liars are Commy's and youl sea.
>
>Just look at http://www.iww.org/ All COMMY!
There is nothing "commie" about the IWW ... just because it is
anti-capitalist does not mean it is communist, although many people
make the mistake of thinking this way.
And yes I know you are just trolling but just in case someone else
didn't know ...
--
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.iww.org
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Tim Kelley)
Crossposted-To: alt.os.linux
Subject: Re: Uptime 6 months and counting.
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 13:59:43 GMT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Fri, 30 Jun 2000 03:37:22 GMT, Charlie Ebert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Doc Shipley wrote:
>
>
>Longest one I've ever seen up so far was 3.2 years and still going.
>
I had a server with 167 days up, running squid and serving as a
firewall, until my coworker, who is a windiot, rebooted it while I was
on vacation. This is what always seems to happen to me.
It's hilarious, though, the way these MCSE's have this utterly
pavlovian response to reboot whenever there is any sort of problem.
"Must reboot ... must reboot ... must solve problem ...."
Zombie fuckin' idiots.
--
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.iww.org
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Tim Kelley)
Crossposted-To: comp.unix.advocacy
Subject: Re: What UNIX is good for.
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 14:02:02 GMT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On 30 Jun 2000 03:14:07 GMT, abraxas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>In comp.os.linux.advocacy Tim Palmer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>>
>> You can try Photoshop if you doanm't. You'll never look bak.
>>
>
>I actually went to gimp FROM photoshop, and ive never looked back.
Me too. I can't stand the photoshop/photo-paint style interface, I
like the way gimp puts every applet in a different window. I also
just like the way gimp works.
--
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.iww.org
------------------------------
From: Nathaniel Jay Lee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: CommyLinux vs Microsoft (was: Re: Windows98)
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 09:09:01 -0500
Aaron Kulkis wrote:
> > CommyLie-nux and Cappittalist Microsoft? Hehehe, that's cool. In fact,
> > I think CommyLie-nux could win as best anti-Linux tagline in my book.
> > It's short, it sums up all the fear that MS really feels towards Linux
> > (After all, the USSR's people weren't inherently evil during the cold
>
> Actually, the USSR's people never were the problem
>
> It's the so-called "leaders" who are holding them all hostage.
Actually, that was kind of my point. Spread enough FUD (as the US
government did) and people were convinced that all USSR people were evil
scum. The people were no more evil than us, and they were probably fed
a bunch of crap about how evil US people were. Different perspectives,
some FUD tactics and you got some rather interesting things happening.
Now, people hope that by bringing up the word Communist in connection
with Linux it will remind people of all the fear the US citizenry went
through during the cold war, and the missile crisis and all of that,
rather than try to actually look at Linux as a technical work. Perfect
FUD tactics, cloud the real issue with fears (which were themselves
based on clouded issues of thier day) and uncertainties about something
completely unrelated.
--
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Nathaniel Jay Lee
------------------------------
From: Nathaniel Jay Lee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: CommyLinux vs Microsoft (was: Re: Windows98)
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 09:11:39 -0500
Tim Palmer wrote:
> The thing that's funy as hell is CommyLienux. That's the joak heer. You heer "it's
>the best OS ever ritten", and then woch it spaze out when you try to run it like some
>prank viriis.
>
Yep, if you are trying to run Linux like it is some prank virus, then
maybe you will be a little disappointed.
> >
> >CommyLie-nux and Cappittalist Microsoft? Hehehe, that's cool. In fact,
> >I think CommyLie-nux could win as best anti-Linux tagline in my book.
> >It's short, it sums up all the fear that MS really feels towards Linux
> >u(After all, the USSR's people weren't inherently evil during the cold
> >war, but U.S.'s FUD made it seem that Commy=red devil),
>
> The Commy's are agenst freedum. Just look at any Commy cuntry.
>
> Then look at how all Lie-nux Liars are Commy's and youl sea.
I'm not following the logic here at all. Linux is about freedom.
Freedom of choice, freedom of thought, freedom to work how you want.
How is that commy, by your definition (against freedom?)?
>
> Just look at http://www.iww.org/ All COMMY!
>
> >and it carries
> >all sorts of emotional baggage into the mix that really doesn't belong
> >there. Perfect FUD.
> >
> >--
> >[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >Nathaniel Jay Lee
--
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Nathaniel Jay Lee
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Jim Cameron)
Subject: Re: Why linux sucks and why linux is best
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 13:36:58 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Pete Goodwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>[EMAIL PROTECTED] (No Name) wrote in <8jfn16$ppq$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>
>>99% of computer users don't give a fig about "3D Positional Audio on
>>Sound Cards".
>
>Where do you get that amazing figure?
He pulled it out of his arse, of course, just like a Windows advocate.
> Seems like every sound card
>manufacturer wants 3D Positional Audio, EAX or A3D support on their cards.
>Why would they do that if nobody cared?
It adds another bullet point onto the side of the box. The more bullet
points, the more stuff you sell. Whether any of them actually get used
is another matter. Look at Word 8-)
jim
--
http://madeira.physiol.ucl.ac.uk/people/jim/
"Revenge is an integral part of forgiving and forgetting" -The BOFH
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Jim Cameron)
Subject: Re: CommyLinux vs Microsoft (was: Re: Windows98)
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 13:16:46 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Donovan Rebbechi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>On 28 Jun 2000 15:56:06 -0500, Tim Palmer wrote:
>>And you work for the Commy IWW. You genuin COMMYLINUX BASTARD
>>
>>Why run CommyLie-nux when you can run Cappittalist
>>Microsoft!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
>Linux is an operating system, you stupid ass. It is not leftist or rightist
>or any of that. I know loopy leftists who use Windows and hard line rightists
>that use Linux.
>
>You're worse than the loopy advocates -- Windows and Linux are just OSs,
>not political schools. Get over it. And learn to spell.
I vote Tim Palmer for Most Successful Troll of 2000.
jim
--
http://madeira.physiol.ucl.ac.uk/people/jim/
"Revenge is an integral part of forgiving and forgetting" -The BOFH
------------------------------
From: Nathaniel Jay Lee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Lost Cause Theater!!!
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 09:28:19 -0500
Tim Palmer wrote:
>
> On Fri, 23 Jun 2000 12:51:25 -0500, Tim Kelley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> >>
> >> Actually I admire the Poles for trying their best.
> >
> >Gee, how gracious of you. I'm sure they would've appreciated it.
> >
> >The truth is you're a complete dork who obviously has little to
> >do with his time, like the other windows morons on here. What is
> >unbelieveable is that anyone bothers to answer the little turds
> >you, Tim Palmer or Jeff Szarka throw on cola.
>
> Whare's your Commy IWW sig, CommyLie-nux Commy? The troth is that you are a hippy,
>commy dork working to overthrou capitleism with your crappy CommyLie-nux.
>
Oh, we're adding hippy into the mix now are we? Cool, I always liked
long hair. Do we get some drugs too?
> You'l do anytthing to make everyone put up with yoor crappy 1960's Commy Line
>Interface tiping commands all day.
I really don't see too many of us shoving Linux down your throat.
Although, there are plenty of the Winvocates trying to make sure we pay
every cent we ever earned to the MS god of greed.
>
> DOS is ded, and UNIX should go with it.
If DOS is dead, then why the hell does MS keep releasing "consumer"
versions of Windows that are based on it? I'm thinking you need a
little education in your favorite OS there pal.
--
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Nathaniel Jay Lee
------------------------------
From: Nathaniel Jay Lee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.admin.networking,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Lost Cause Theater!!!
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 09:34:10 -0500
Charlie Ebert wrote:
>
> Anybody, and I mean ANYBODY who actually believes Microsoft has a future is a
> total
> fruitcake!
>
> In-fact, their fruitcake salad with crackers for the side dish!
>
> Charlie
>
> P.S. Can you believe these Window's supporters! They act as if there is no
> tommorrow....
I know I shouldn't respond, but: SHUT UP CHARLIE!
I'm no MS supporter (read some of my posts), but you do nothing to help
the Linux cause. You put out just as many lies as the Winvocates and
you sound just as stupid. MS isn't going to die tomorrow as you keep
saying (over and over and over and ....). They will fade in time (not
immediately, but everything dies in time), but you blabbing all over
about the death of MS is just a nuisance. Who the hell cares?
You know, the Winvocates are funny because I don't care about thier
cause. Seeing them lie is fine with me, it makes them look like fools
(not all Winvocates are fools, just for the record, just the ones that
lie and spread fudarama), but seeing someone spout off crap that is
obviously a bunch of made up shit to "promote" Linux is just stupid.
Linux is still at a point where we need good advocacy. Why ruin that?
Unless you are paid by the same people that pay
Simon/steve/mike/whatever?
--
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Nathaniel Jay Lee
------------------------------
From: "Arthur L. Rubin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,misc.legal,talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.libertarian,talk.politics.libertarian,alt.politics.economics
Subject: Re: M$ Exposed (was Re: Oracle's Dirty Tricks Department)
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 14:46:08 GMT
Marcus Turner wrote:
> That doesn't mean that they have bought these independent trade
> organizations, just as Ellison's contributions to the Democrats doesn't mean
> he bought Al Gore.
Well, somebody bought Al Gore. He can't be that stupid on his own,
can he?
--
Arthur L. Rubin [EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Donovan Rebbechi)
Subject: Re: Linux, easy to use?
Date: 30 Jun 2000 14:52:29 GMT
On Fri, 30 Jun 2000 07:10:58 GMT, Pete Goodwin wrote:
>In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Donovan Rebbechi) wrote:
>That was too easy: XV and XMovie. I found them in five minutes of
>looking, that probably means there are more.
XV is more or less obsolete as a GUI app. I haven't tried XMovie.
>I'm not sure if XEmacs was another. I'll check tonight.
No, Xemacs isn't another -- it's Motif based, and motif uses
those bindings.
>> This will always work in GNOME / KDE since the toolkits bind this way
>> by default ( you'd have to go out of your way to write a program that
>> doesn't do it this way ! )
>
>Not every application is based on Gnome or KDE, and that's the problem.
Actually, the other toolkits are rapidly heading towards obsolescence.
>For a long time there was no set of desktop controls that you could use
>on Linux. There was MOTIF, but it required a licence. So, guess what,
>everyone starts inventing their own.
... but many of these toolkits use Motif-like bindings.
--
Donovan
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