Linux-Advocacy Digest #400, Volume #30 Fri, 24 Nov 00 18:13:02 EST
Contents:
Re: Windoze 2000 - just as shitty as ever (mark)
Re: Corel To Dump Linux? (mlw)
Re: Windoze 2000 - just as shitty as ever ("Ayende Rahien")
Re: Windoze 2000 - just as shitty as ever ("Ayende Rahien")
Re: Windoze 2000 - just as shitty as ever ("Ayende Rahien")
Re: Windoze 2000 - just as shitty as ever (Chris Ahlstrom)
Re: Windoze 2000 - just as shitty as ever (Chris Ahlstrom)
Re: Uptime -- where is NT? (Chris Ahlstrom)
Re: Uptime -- where is NT? (Chris Ahlstrom)
Re: OT: Could someone explain C++ phobia in Linux? (mlw)
Re: The Sixth Sense (Chris Ahlstrom)
Re: Windoze 2000 - just as shitty as ever (Chris Ahlstrom)
Re: Of course, there is a down side... (Donovan Rebbechi)
Re: A Microsoft exodus! ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Re: Uptime -- where is NT? ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Re: Linux for nitwits (Pete Goodwin)
Re: Windoze 2000 - just as shitty as ever ("Ayende Rahien")
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (mark)
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Windoze 2000 - just as shitty as ever
Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 21:11:48 +0000
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, T. Max Devlin wrote:
>Said Ayende Rahien in alt.destroy.microsoft on Fri, 24 Nov 2000 12:35:50
>>"T. Max Devlin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>>news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>>> Said Ayende Rahien in alt.destroy.microsoft on Thu, 23 Nov 2000 03:44:12
>>
>>
>>> >Why *should* I care about language that I'm neither using nor likely to
>>use.
>>>
>>> Because you want others to care about languages that they neither use
>>> nor are likely to use, but that you use. Get it? Its called being
>>> civilized.
>>
>>I don't want them to care, *I* care.
>
>You want Microsoft to care. Which means you want Microsoft to care
>about what other customer's want (or you are just making things up about
>them caring what *any* customer wants, including you, and you just got
>lucky that what they provide is coincidentally what you can use.) You
>said that Microsoft adds language support to increase profitability. So
>you care about whether they pay attention to their customers (you)
>right? Well, that means you care about whether they pay attention to
>their customers (others), as well, or you're just not thinking hard
>enough to be considered competent to make purchasing decisions.
I'm not often really disgusted by what I read here, but this
thread is reminiscent of the anti-dyslexia post of several
months ago. This attitude is really appalling. I'm going to
explain this one to my kids as an example of how not to behave.
I guess some people really do deserve Windows and Microsoft.
Ayende - you're welcome to your windows - please use it and go
somewhere else.
Mark
------------------------------
From: mlw <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Corel To Dump Linux?
Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 16:31:11 -0500
MH wrote:
>
> Of course. What part of linux not being a good business model is it you are
> having trouble with? Anyone who knew anything knew Corel wouldn't have a
> chance with Linux. They tried, received some decent reviews of their
> product, then basically got lynched by the linux zealots for trying to 'dumb
> down' linux. The press seemed to like the product. Oh, it costs money?
> Well, there's your problem Corel. These folks aren't going to pay for squat.
> Ho hum. Same old BS from linux users. But then ..."we've got apps, no we
> don't, yes we do,...SHUTTUP!!!!!
Actually, there are NO companies which make the majority of profit from
operating systems. Operating systems, as a business model in general are
going to fail. Most OS companies create operating systems to support
their products.
Microsoft is rare in that they were able to capitalize early on a trend,
and then by means of monopolistic practices, were able to move into
other markets.
>
> On another issue...have you taken a look at linux journal lately? I have
> issues going back to late 95. Nice, thin, informative issues. The magazine
> now is thick with ads, too thick with ads compared to the content. When the
> readership complains the editors cite the fact that their % of ads is no
> greater than any other computer related magazine. Uh huh. Lookey, where are
> all those windows computer magazines today? More than half of them are gone.
Look at "Wired," I actually saw an article in it the other day. I don't
even bother looking at it anymore. There is little information in
magazines that isn't available weeks sooner on the 'net.
[snip]
I have yet to see one product, ever, made by Corel that was any good.
The fact that Corel is dropping Linux after an investment by Microsoft,
is, however, interesting.
--
http://www.mohawksoft.com
------------------------------
From: "Ayende Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Windoze 2000 - just as shitty as ever
Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 23:23:30 +0200
"mark" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> In article <8vlnrb$4tvic$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Ayende Rahien wrote:
> >
> >"Tom Wilson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> >news:w_rT5.14$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >
> >Talking about the registery.
> >
> >>. I think MS could have done
> >> a far better job by taking the dedicated partition approach. It'd be a
lot
> >> safer kept from the OS's file system.
> >
> >You are probably correct, the problem is that it's *much* more convenient
> >and easier to handle files than partitions.
> >
>
> Convenient for whom?
Practically everybody.
Tools to handle files are easier to write than for partitions.
And it's easier to do backup from/to files.
------------------------------
From: "Ayende Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Windoze 2000 - just as shitty as ever
Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 23:26:15 +0200
"mark" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> In article <8vm8rq$567km$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Ayende Rahien wrote:
> >
> >Yes.
> >Because the language thing is only a small reason why I like Windows.
> >Unlike most people, I've a good knowledge in english, and I can handle
all
> >english system.
> >I've experiance with several OS, including half a dozen or so linux dist
> >(excluding versions), I choose windows because it's the one best suited
to
> >my need.
> >
> So why are you complaining about language support then?
I made a passing note, and it became a big arguement.
------------------------------
From: "Ayende Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Windoze 2000 - just as shitty as ever
Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 23:27:48 +0200
"mark" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, T. Max Devlin
wrote:
> I'm not often really disgusted by what I read here, but this
> thread is reminiscent of the anti-dyslexia post of several
> months ago. This attitude is really appalling. I'm going to
> explain this one to my kids as an example of how not to behave.
>
> I guess some people really do deserve Windows and Microsoft.
>
> Ayende - you're welcome to your windows - please use it and go
> somewhere else.
You *are* aware that you replied to someone's else message, don't you?
Whatever disgust you so much, it wasn't me who said it.
------------------------------
From: Chris Ahlstrom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Windoze 2000 - just as shitty as ever
Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 21:35:19 GMT
Ayende Rahien wrote:
>
> Tools to handle files are easier to write than for partitions.
> And it's easier to do backup from/to files.
I'm wondering if this is just because there are more APIs for
files (the f...() functions in C, the Win32 API, ...)
than for partitions.
One thing you have to give Microsoft, they sure throw the
APIs atcha!
Chris
--
Linux rocks
------------------------------
From: Chris Ahlstrom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Windoze 2000 - just as shitty as ever
Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 21:38:47 GMT
mark wrote:
>
> >They can get
> >the same level of stability using Win2k.
>
> The jury is out and will be out for a long time on that.
The reason is twofold: (1) Win 2000 still has roughly 50%
of the original code -- hopefully, the best parts, but maybe
some parts containing bugs; (2) The new code in Win 2000 is
hopefully based on better (e.g. more UNIX-like) models -- but
it is /new/ code, and it will take some time to iron out the
main bugs.
And who knows? Maybe Win 2000 continues to use some
flawed models for portions of its code. As mark said, the
jury is out...
Chris
--
Linux rocks
------------------------------
From: Chris Ahlstrom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.os2.advocacy,alt.destroy.microsoft
Subject: Re: Uptime -- where is NT?
Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 21:42:12 GMT
mark wrote:
>
> I just got an announcement today that our exchange servers
> will, from now on, be rebooted for 'housekeeping' reasons
> on a monthly or more often basis.
>
> I'm fairly relieved, in fact, because the response times
> were getting to be a bit of a joke (there's even a note
> on an internal web-site accepting this).
>
> I mention this because it seems so far away from the
> exceptionally long (for NT, at least) times you're
> quoting above, and I'm wondering why your times seem
> to be so much better than anyone elses?
Where I work as a contractor (SPAWAR Systems Center CHAS,
SC), we get fairly frequent announcements about various
services down for scheduled maintenance during off hours.
Really, it is pretty tricky to get software to not leak,
and Microsoft has as much trouble as anyone else.
Chris
--
Linux rocks
------------------------------
From: Chris Ahlstrom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.os2.advocacy,alt.destroy.microsoft
Subject: Re: Uptime -- where is NT?
Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 21:50:27 GMT
mark wrote:
>
> >
> >Then perhaps you can explain why Debian's website has only a 35 day average
> >uptime.
> >
> >http://uptime.netcraft.com/graph?display=uptime&site=www.debian.org
> >
>
> Because it was taken down? This is an interesting feature of
> windows people, the idea that a machine might go down because
> you actually want it to - I've had similar conversations with
> some of our MCSE IS people - they find it difficult to grasp
> as well.
Actually, if you look at that same site a day later (right now), it now
stands at 36 days. Erik Funkenbusch funked up on this one. The time shown
is not an average time, but is the latest time. It could go higher and higher
for quite awhile.
Also, if you look at the table 2 below the curve, you'll see a change in IP
address around Oct 22.
All this heat, and no light.
Chris
--
Linux rocks
------------------------------
From: mlw <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: OT: Could someone explain C++ phobia in Linux?
Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 16:55:52 -0500
Russ Lyttle wrote:
>
> mlw wrote:
> >
> > Russ Lyttle wrote:
> > >
> >
> > >
> > > If you think writing a kernel in C++ is easy why don't you do it? Even a
> > > simple version of something like Micro-C OS would be a valuable
> > > contribution to the community if you made it.
> > > > --
> >
> > I actually published an article on just that for Keithly Metrabyte
> > several years ago. It was about how to design kernel drivers for Windows
> > NT and Windows 98 using the same source, and C++ classes to abstruct
> > things like DMA, bus mastering, IRQs, etc. The source is (AFAIK) still
> > being used at Keithley, and probably still available on the web.a
> > --
> > http://www.mohawksoft.com
> I didn't say write a driver for NT, I said write an OS! Big differnce.
> Micro-C/OS is pretty simple. Much simpler than Linux. It should be
> pretty simple to do the class diagram, use cases, and time lines.
I would love to have the time to write an OS. It would be fun. I have
written a few embedded kernels for Z80 products, doing it in C++ would
make it really fun.
--
http://www.mohawksoft.com
------------------------------
From: Chris Ahlstrom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: The Sixth Sense
Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 21:58:24 GMT
Curtis wrote:
>
> Is there any practical reason for me to know more than I do presently. I
> make associations without difficulty. I realised that I can only
> associate one default application with a particular filetype. An annoying
> limitation at times. However I can associate multiple applications for a
> particular filetype. Being able to associate applications on a per file
> basis is great but not a show stopper for me, meaning that I will not
> drop Windows and it's advantages to embrace that functionality in another
> OS.
Uh, you can get a lot of this functionality in Windozzzzzzz using the
shortcuts.
> I only really care about the end result. Any particular OS you use will
> never be perfect. You choose the one that offers the best balance for
> your needs, monopolies and all being considered. :=)
It is your choice.
Chris
--
Linux rocks
------------------------------
From: Chris Ahlstrom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Windoze 2000 - just as shitty as ever
Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 22:01:22 GMT
Curtis wrote:
>
> I won't dive into technical arguments since I'm a medical professional
> who just loves using his computer and loves a challenge. However, I do
> know enough to make a competent choice. I've use Win3.1, Win9x, Linux,
> BeOS, MacOS, OS/2, NT and now Win2k. I used OS/2 in particular for years.
Guess medical professionals can afford the Windozzzzzzzzzz software.
I can, too, but still get the best kick for my money and machinery
out of Linux on a cheap Intel box.
Chris
--
Linux rocks
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Donovan Rebbechi)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Of course, there is a down side...
Date: 24 Nov 2000 22:33:37 GMT
On Fri, 24 Nov 2000 20:20:06 +0000, mark wrote:
>In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Donovan Rebbechi wrote:
>>On Fri, 24 Nov 2000 08:04:10 GMT, Ketil Z Malde wrote:
>I think the point was that it's easy whether you're using
>an rpm or deb based distro.
That was the original poster's point. The other guys point was that
it was harder with Redhat than it was with Debian.
Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi * http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/ *
elflord at panix dot com
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy
Subject: Re: A Microsoft exodus!
Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 17:49:46 -0500
Larry Pyeatt wrote:
>
> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> (major snippage)
>
> > vi editing is superior....hands don't leave the main keyboard area.
>
> Unless you use a Dvorak keyboard. ;)
1) Considering that vi only uses main-keyboard keys (regardless
of QWERTY vs. Dvorak issues.....why, exactly?
2) Only PSEUDO-intellectual dorks use Dvorak.
The only tests that 'demonstrated' superior speed on a Dvorak
board were those conducted by Dvorak himself (1943, US Navy).
All other trials have failed to reproduce the results.
>
> --
> Larry D. Pyeatt, PhD.
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> http://www.cs.ttu.edu/~pyeatt
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
ICQ # 3056642
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.os2.advocacy,alt.destroy.microsoft
Subject: Re: Uptime -- where is NT?
Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 17:57:00 -0500
Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
>
> mark wrote:
> >
> > I just got an announcement today that our exchange servers
> > will, from now on, be rebooted for 'housekeeping' reasons
> > on a monthly or more often basis.
> >
> > I'm fairly relieved, in fact, because the response times
> > were getting to be a bit of a joke (there's even a note
> > on an internal web-site accepting this).
> >
> > I mention this because it seems so far away from the
> > exceptionally long (for NT, at least) times you're
> > quoting above, and I'm wondering why your times seem
> > to be so much better than anyone elses?
>
> Where I work as a contractor (SPAWAR Systems Center CHAS,
> SC), we get fairly frequent announcements about various
> services down for scheduled maintenance during off hours.
>
> Really, it is pretty tricky to get software to not leak,
> and Microsoft has as much trouble as anyone else.
^^^^^^^
you misspelled "more"
Can you say "spaghetti code" ????
>
> Chris
>
> --
> Linux rocks
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
ICQ # 3056642
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
From: Pete Goodwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux for nitwits
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 22:58:53 +0000
mark wrote:
> I wouldn't recommend installing Windows to anyone.
>
> I would recommend Linux.
Why? Because you've had bad experiences of installing Windows? Because
you'd like to imply all installations of Windows are going to be bad?
I've installed both Linux and Windows, from early versions onwards.
Linux has never been that easy to install and get all my hardware working,
and that still seems to be true.
Windows has been getting quirkier, with multiple reboots, but I can
guarantee getting my hardware to work. I may have to install manufacturer's
drivers but at least they exist.
On my dual boot system, all my hardware works on Windows 98 SE.
On Linux Mandrake 7.2, some of my hardware works. My sound card is not
directly supported, but OSS do a driver for it. Unfortunately, install this
driver and KDE hangs on startup.
My scanner has a beta driver, but it doesn't work because Linux appears to
power down my USB hub. Likewise the Intel WebCam (on the same hub).
Even hardware that is supposed to be supported doesn't work that easily. My
older system has an SB16 and an AHA152X SCSI card. Linux Mandrake 7.0
couldn't see either of them; Windows had them installed by default.
So from this, should I say "I cannot recommend Linux, I recommend Windows"?
--
Pete, running KDE2 on Linux Mandrake 7.2
------------------------------
From: "Ayende Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Windoze 2000 - just as shitty as ever
Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 00:50:25 +0200
"Chris Ahlstrom" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Ayende Rahien wrote:
> >
> > Tools to handle files are easier to write than for partitions.
> > And it's easier to do backup from/to files.
>
> I'm wondering if this is just because there are more APIs for
> files (the f...() functions in C, the Win32 API, ...)
> than for partitions.
That, and that handling files is *much* more common than handling
partitions.
> One thing you have to give Microsoft, they sure throw the
> APIs atcha!
You can say that again. :)
------------------------------
** FOR YOUR REFERENCE **
The service address, to which questions about the list itself and requests
to be added to or deleted from it should be directed, is:
Internet: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
You can send mail to the entire list (and comp.os.linux.advocacy) via:
Internet: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Linux may be obtained via one of these FTP sites:
ftp.funet.fi pub/Linux
tsx-11.mit.edu pub/linux
sunsite.unc.edu pub/Linux
End of Linux-Advocacy Digest
******************************
