Linux-Advocacy Digest #409, Volume #27 Sat, 1 Jul 00 06:13:06 EDT
Contents:
Re: Trying Linux yet again.... (Jeff Szarka)
Re: Comparing Windows NT and UNIX System Management (R.E.Ballard ( Rex Ballard ))
Re: I'm Ready! I'm ready! I'm not ready. (Laura Goodwin)
Re: Linux, easy to use? (Pete Goodwin)
Re: Linux, easy to use? (Pete Goodwin)
Re: Linux, easy to use? (Pete Goodwin)
Re: Linux, easy to use? (Pete Goodwin)
Re: Linux, easy to use? (Pete Goodwin)
Re: I hope you trolls are happy... (Pete Goodwin)
Re: Linux, easy to use? (Steve Mading)
Re: Uptime 6 months and counting. (Aaron Kulkis)
Re: Linux, easy to use? (Pete Goodwin)
Where did all my windows go? (Pete Goodwin)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Jeff Szarka <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Trying Linux yet again....
Date: Sat, 01 Jul 2000 01:08:29 -0400
On Sat, 01 Jul 2000 04:06:08 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] () wrote:
>>It looks like the USB support in Mandrake 7.0 is not the same as what
>>is in 7.1 The older versoin must have supported my motherboard's USB
>>controller and the newer one doesn't.
>
> ...there just aren't that many variants of inboard USB
> controllers...
I'm not sure why it isn't working since it did work fine. From what I
was told, the support in 7.0 was based on a patch whereas the support
in 7.1 is kernel based. I would assume this means they're different
code.
Either way, USB = not working.
------------------------------
From: R.E.Ballard ( Rex Ballard ) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy
Subject: Re: Comparing Windows NT and UNIX System Management
Date: Sat, 01 Jul 2000 06:16:20 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (The Ghost In The Machine) wrote:
> In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Tim Palmer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote on 25 Jun 2000 15:41:13 -0500 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> > http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/bin/nts/ntsysman.exe
>
> [1] 404; others have already pointed this out.
>
> [2] What, precisely, is the point of serving a .exe file?
> Is this executed from the server side, or the client?
a .exe file can be one of two things. It can either be a
self-extracting zip file, or it can be an executable program,
or it can be a self-extracting zip-file that then executes
an executable program that does something really cute (like
send your cooking and history files to an unregistored but
routed server (in the microsoft domain?) and then removes
all traces of itself.
The very first time you get a .exe you get the option of
just running the file. If you're not careful, you can
accidentally turn off the warning and follow a link like
that so far into the trees it's scary.
Ironically, some of the very few means of providing scriptable
administration are only on the 'outlaw-hacker' boards. And
Microsoft has a link which appears to be about "administration?".
Oh, by the way, I dropped the soap, would you please pick it up? ;-)
> --
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- insert random misquote here
>
--
Rex Ballard - Open Source Advocate, Internet
I/T Architect, MIS Director
http://www.open4success.com
Linux - 90 million satisfied users worldwide
and growing at over 5%/month!
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: Laura Goodwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: I'm Ready! I'm ready! I'm not ready.
Date: Sat, 01 Jul 2000 01:56:59 -0400
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Aaron Ginn wrote:
>
> If you build your own computers, why don't you forget the dual-boot
> setup and dedicate one machine to installing Linux.
That's one idea. I'm thinking of putting a second HD in my PC just for
Linux. I (as usual) have an old one knocking around. I'm not going to
scare up an extra case, mobo, etc. just to toy with a new OS. If I try
it and like it I may do that later.
Here's my current setup: (All EIDE)
FIC PAG-2130 mobo (100 MHZ FSB, 1MB L2 cache) This VIA chipset board
has onboard Trident AGP vid that shares the RAM, and onboard
soundblaster compatible sound.
AMD 350 K6-2 CPU
Generic 128 MB PC-100 SDRAM (8 for vid, 120 for system)
Voodoo 2 12MB 3D (PCI)
Happauge WinTV (PCI)
US Robotics PnP voice/fax (ISA, *not* a winmodem)
C-it USB webcam
Logitech Marblemouse trackball (USB, but I have it on ps/2 with an
adapter)
Komodo 17" SVGA display (Spectre)
Hi-Val 2242 CD-RW
Generic CD-Rom, generic FDD and generic (windows-type) keyboard
Western Digital 15.3 G HD (7200 rpm ATA 66)
Like I said, I may dedicate my extra 4.3 G Quantum fireball to Linux.
I'm not chicken about resizing partitons, etc., but I don't want to mess
my drive with multiple non-FAT partitions and all that rot just to
experiment. Too much hassle.
Thanks for caring. :)
--
"Sureshot" Laura
http://pcwranglers.com/
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Linux, easy to use?
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Pete Goodwin)
Date: Sat, 01 Jul 2000 07:06:09 GMT
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Aaron Kulkis) wrote in <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>> But what do you consider to be KDE's Explorer? In my mind that would
>> be kfm (KDE's File Manager) in which case you would be dragging and
>> dropping entirely within kfm.
>
>Forget it, Petey BadLose has been caught in yet another windows lie.
Oh really? Take a good look and you will find a KDE Explorer equivalent.
It's there. I may have got the name wrong, but it's there.
Pete
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Linux, easy to use?
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Pete Goodwin)
Date: Sat, 01 Jul 2000 07:10:50 GMT
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Arthur Frain) wrote in <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>I think you're confused here - left select/middle paste is similar to
>drag
>and drop, not cut and paste. The selection has to remain just like with
>drag and drop.
>
>X does have a clipboard (run xclipboard) for use with cut and paste. If
>you cut or copy to the clipboard, you can still use middle button/paste
>to paste the clipboard data into any app that supports it (which is
>almost all apps).
That's bizarre. If you have text selected somewhere and you have text on
the clipboard, how do you know which one will get pasted!
>> What is missing in KDE is a menu with Copy/Paste on, and keyboard
>> versions of the same thing. I can't use CTRL-C/V in an edit field in
>> KDE, though I can use paste-with-middle. A little inconsistant I
>> think.
>
>I'm not sure what you're referring to here. At any rate "missing in KDE"
>is pretty wide of the mark. If you're referring to a single line edit,
>KDE apps would typically use a QLineEdit object which has cut () and
>paste ()
>methods (which use the clipboard). Whether or not they're bound to
>keys or a menu is up to the programmer - in some places they may not
>be very useful or even desireable. In most of those places select/paste
>with the mouse will still work, because you'd have to write code to
>disable it, and I don't think most people do.
Most terminal emulators (xterm) do not have an Edit menu with Cut, Copy and
Paste.
Pete
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Linux, easy to use?
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Pete Goodwin)
Date: Sat, 01 Jul 2000 07:13:44 GMT
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Steve Mading) wrote in
<8jjdev$olq$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>There are advantages to both techniques, and neither system does both.
>This issue is a bit of a wash. The advantage of the Windows way is
>that it allows the clipboard selection to live long after the selection
>is made. The disadvantage of the Windows way is that even when you
>don't need to have the clipboard selection live that long, you still
>have to go through the annoying (to me, anyway) extra steps of telling
>one app you want to copy the selection, and telling the other app you
>want to paste it. Regardless of which way this is done, keypress or
>menubar, it is more tedious that the quick X-windows way.
Well, the X way seems to require boths apps to be live to do it. The
Windows way allows one app to copy to the clipboard, then disappear. You
can paste for as much as you like, even if the original app has gone.
With X there's one less keyclick - but then if _two_ apps have text
selected - which one gets pasted? The most recently visited? How does a
user know?
Pete
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Linux, easy to use?
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Pete Goodwin)
Date: Sat, 01 Jul 2000 07:19:18 GMT
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Aaron Kulkis) wrote in <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>We are not responsible for YOUR misunderstanding.
>
>Hint: X, KDE and GNOME are NOT *required* for anything.
Oh don't hold back with the insults Aaron. Why bother - you don't in other
posts, even when you're wrong (found KDE explorer yet?)?
Duh, like I don't know that. I have on my PC166 system a Linux box acting
as a server. It does not have any window manager installed as I rarely log
into it.
I'm usually talking about "the Linux desktop" when I compare it with
Windows. The Linux desktop consists of Linux, X and whatever else - like
KDE or Gnome.
Why is it I seem to have to "spell it out" every time - otherwise I get
called a moron or a complete idiot by some people? It would seem to be a
deliberately pedantic point in some cases.
Pete
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Linux, easy to use?
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Pete Goodwin)
Date: Sat, 01 Jul 2000 07:28:26 GMT
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (John Culleton) wrote in
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>>Oh I've installed Slackware a few times. It is one of the more
>difficult
>>distros to install in that it provides very little in the shiny
>helpful gui
>>way of things.
>>
>Yes, that is one of its virtues.
Being a bit of difficult package to install is hardly a virtue.
>>Setting up X involved xf86config. If you want intimidating, try
>it and see!
>
>Well since I have done it many times over the years, I don't need
>to try it again ;-) In part the distinction between Slackware and
>many other distributions parallels the difference between Linux
>and MSWindows. Not everything is done for you with some neat
>click and pop menus. That means you have to do more work and have
>to understand more. But you have more control, and a better
>chance of fixing the problem when Things Go Wrong.
It asks for information I no longer have on my old DEC monitor - like
frequencies etc. Other distros do a "best guess" and get it right. It took
me a lot longer with more "guesses" to get it right on Slackware.
>>Oh yeah, and make sure you don't type any characters like " in
>any of the
>>parameters. Oh dear it barfs big time if you do that!
>>
>>Pete
>
>Yes, and make sure you don't type X when you mean Y. Your point?
>I have been typing (and proofreading my typing) since 1943 or
>thereabouts. Until we get to meaningful voice data entry we have
>to type. In this day and age you are supposed to know how.
My point is that I entered something like the following:
Monitor "Bloggs"
What I did not know was the script gets confused if you enter a " in the
parameters - how was I supposed to know that? It did not come back with
" is an illegal character
it went ahead a generated a script that fails.
This has nothing to do with knowing how to type.
>There are some applications (such as browsing the net) where
>having a gui is handier than not having it. There are others
>(such as musical notation) where the gui simply gets in the way,
>even if the final result is graphical (i. e. not straight text)
>in nature. Linux gives you a choice. Unfortunately too many souls
>follow the Apple/Microsoft party line which state that everything
>has to be a graphical as possible. I take a more balanced view.
I was using text based systems long before I came across GUI's. I still
remember the first X based workstations as they appeared in Digital,
running UIS. Then came MOTIF.
I am not "following the Apple/MS" party line - I happen to _like_ GUI's. I
have become a GUI programmer.
Once GUI's appeared, I (like the rest of the company, pretty much) moved
onto them. We still used DCL like we did in text based days, but you could
run four terminals together on one X display (1280x1024).
Windows went one step further and pretty much consigned the command line to
history, forcing the issue. I don't have any big problem with that - though
I do find scripts are a little easier for some repetitive jobs.
>So I prefer Slackware. It suits my world view.
It's a view that is perhaps based in the past.
Pete
------------------------------
Subject: Re: I hope you trolls are happy...
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Pete Goodwin)
Date: Sat, 01 Jul 2000 07:31:33 GMT
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Black Dragon) wrote in
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>>No... There is where you are wrong. You're not susposed to edit any
>>config files.
>
>Whatsamatta'? To stupid to figure out how to edit a few simple ascii text
>files? That's basically what you are saying.
Judging by the number of people complaining about this in
alt.os.linux.mandrake, it's hardly a few simple ascii text files.
Pete
------------------------------
From: Steve Mading <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux, easy to use?
Date: 1 Jul 2000 07:35:40 GMT
Pete Goodwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Steve Mading) wrote in
: <8jjdev$olq$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
:>There are advantages to both techniques, and neither system does both.
:>This issue is a bit of a wash. The advantage of the Windows way is
:>that it allows the clipboard selection to live long after the selection
:>is made. The disadvantage of the Windows way is that even when you
:>don't need to have the clipboard selection live that long, you still
:>have to go through the annoying (to me, anyway) extra steps of telling
:>one app you want to copy the selection, and telling the other app you
:>want to paste it. Regardless of which way this is done, keypress or
:>menubar, it is more tedious that the quick X-windows way.
: Well, the X way seems to require boths apps to be live to do it. The
: Windows way allows one app to copy to the clipboard, then disappear. You
: can paste for as much as you like, even if the original app has gone.
: With X there's one less keyclick - but then if _two_ apps have text
: selected - which one gets pasted? The most recently visited? How does a
: user know?
The one that's still highlighted.
--
-- ------------------------------------------------------------------
Steven L. Mading at BioMagResBank (BMRB). UW-Madison
Programmer/Analyst/(acting SysAdmin) mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
B1108C, Biochem Addition / 433 Babcock Dr / Madison, WI 53706-1544
------------------------------
From: Aaron Kulkis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.os.linux
Subject: Re: Uptime 6 months and counting.
Date: Sat, 01 Jul 2000 03:54:57 -0400
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> "Pedro Iglesias" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> >I can't understand this uptimes. First of all, don't you
> >update your kernel ? (not modules, the kernel itself).
>
> Why? I upgraded a kernel on this machine a couple of weeks ago --- from
> 2.1.101 (released May 9, 1998) to 2.3.28 (released November 12, 1999).
> That was to bring it in line with the rest of my machines, most of which
> have been running 2.3.28 since last November.
>
> The power around here just isn't good enough for things to run without
> interruption for a long time (I am waiting for the next 2 second power
> outage any day now --- the Alpha has an uptime of 39 days ;-), but
> apart from that... It's not like the older kernels don't work.
Battery backup systems are your friends.
>
> Bernie "yes, I feel guilty about not giving the pre-2.4 kernels a
> thorough test --- but with a 14.4 modem connection, you think
> twice about downloading a year's worth of patches" Meyer
>
> --
> The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to be
> taken seriously
> Hubert Humphrey
> American Democratic politician
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
ICQ # 3056642
H: Knackos...you're a retard.
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: "Jeem" Dutton is a fool of the pathological liar sort.
C: Jet plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a method of
sidetracking discussions which are headed in a direction
that she doesn't like.
D: Jet claims to have killfiled me.
E: Jet now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (D) above.
F: Neither Jeem nor Jet are worthy of the time to compose a
response until their behavior improves.
G: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
------------------------------
From: Pete Goodwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux, easy to use?
Date: Sat, 01 Jul 2000 08:56:17 GMT
In article <8jk70c$bdo$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Steve Mading <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> The one that's still highlighted.
Ah yes, X has to known which one to highlight - so it has to take it
away from one app and pass it onto another one. Seems an awful amount
more work.
--
---
Pete
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: Pete Goodwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Where did all my windows go?
Date: Sat, 01 Jul 2000 08:59:10 GMT
Oh boy...
Everyone is telling me how Linux(1) is more reliable than Windows. Well,
here's one for you.
1. Log onto the Internet with Kppp
2. Go to http://www.theregister.co.uk/ with kfm
3. Find the article on middle england and boycott the pumps
4. Find the link "dump the pump"
5. Reject the cookie
6. The new KDE window starts up but looks unfinished
7. Tell the new window to refresh
All X applications disappear. A message appears briefly that looks like
the cookie again, but I couldn't tell.
Nothing works from now on. Logout is the only option. Restart, do the
above, it does it again.
Now, when an application dies on Windows 98 SE, it can take out the
whole system. Linux is better in this respect in that you can Logout and
try again. However, I've yet to see an application crash take out
Windows 2000 - it just carries on, just like Windows NT did.
(1) When I say Linux, I really mean "the Linux desktop". This is for
those pedantic souls who took to calling me "moron" and "complete
idiot".
--
---
Pete
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
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End of Linux-Advocacy Digest
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