Linux-Advocacy Digest #422, Volume #27 Sun, 2 Jul 00 04:13:03 EDT
Contents:
Re: Where did all my windows go? (Ray Chason)
Re: Run Linux on your desktop? Why? I ask for proof, not advocacy (Shane Phelps)
Re: I'm Ready! I'm ready! I'm not ready. (Ray Chason)
Re: Why Linux, and X.11 when MacOS 'X' is around the corner? (abraxas)
Re: CommyLinux vs Microsoft (abraxas)
Re: Linux not ready for primetime!!! ! ("Bobby D. Bryant")
Re: Petition for Microsoft (Paul E. Larson)
Re: Trying Linux yet again.... (Jeff Szarka)
Re: Trying Linux yet again.... (Jeff Szarka)
Re: Mandrake - DUN ? (Aaron Kulkis)
Re: Linux code going down hill (Aaron Kulkis)
Re: Linux, easy to use? (Pete Goodwin)
Re: I hope you trolls are happy... (Pete Goodwin)
Re: Where did all my windows go? (Pete Goodwin)
Re: Where did all my windows go? (Pete Goodwin)
Re: Linux code going down hill (Paul Wilson)
Re: Where did all my windows go? (Pete Goodwin)
Re: LIE-nux is SUPPOST to destroy data (was: Re: This is a Troll, do not resond
(was Re: Linux is junk)) (Pete Goodwin)
Re: CommyLinux vs Microsoft (Steve Mading)
Re: I'm Ready! I'm ready! I'm not ready. (Steve Mading)
Re: Linux code going down hill (Nic)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Ray Chason <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Where did all my windows go?
Date: 2 Jul 2000 04:36:10 GMT
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Leslie Mikesell) wrote:
>In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
>Ray Chason <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>Jens =?iso-8859-1?Q?Pr=FCfer?= <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>>>When I call up your "dump the pump" website nothing special happens. I
>>>get invited to boycott petrol stations on August 1st, which I am not
>>>going to do.
>>
>>Your headers show:
>>
>>X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.71 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.10 i586)
>>
>>If this is what you used to load dumpthepump then that's why it worked.
>>This is specifically a bug in kfm -- not Linux, not XFree86, not KDE, but
>>kfm.
>
>If you understand that, why did you mention the stability
>of Linux in describing the bug?
Whatever article you read, It must not have been one that I wrote.
--
--------------===============<[ Ray Chason ]>===============--------------
PGP public key at http://www.smart.net/~rchason/pubkey.asc
Delenda est Windoze
------------------------------
From: Shane Phelps <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Run Linux on your desktop? Why? I ask for proof, not advocacy
Date: Sun, 02 Jul 2000 15:45:34 +1000
Tim Palmer wrote:
>
[ snip ]
> >lol... I have several production servers running linux right now. Not one has
>been down since I installed them. The 1 nt machine that I have, which has a faster
>processor, more
> >ram, and handles fewer transactions goes down at least every other week b/c of
>simple things like file transfers.
> >
>
> I halve a Linux machine that goes down every day because of Netscape.
and what do you do with the other half?
How long have you been doing this for? Did you start with
a 500Mhz Pentium with 6GB of hard disk and reduce it to
255MHz/3GB, followed by 127MHz/1.5GB then....
Keep it up and you'll have an AT before long.
BTW, how does Netscape manage to crash a Linux box?
I've never even seen it take out the X server on Linux
or Solaris, not like Nescape or IE taking down my Mac or
Win95 box, or destabilising NT4.
Shane
------------------------------
From: Ray Chason <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: I'm Ready! I'm ready! I'm not ready.
Date: 2 Jul 2000 05:12:43 GMT
Cihl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Laura Goodwin wrote:
>>
>> FIC PAG-2130 mobo (100 MHZ FSB, 1MB L2 cache) This VIA chipset board
>> has onboard Trident AGP vid that shares the RAM, and onboard
>> soundblaster compatible sound.
>
>Make sure you get a recent version of a Linux distribution. There have
>been problems with VIA chipsets in the past. The on-board soundcard
>only works with ALSA since the beginning of June. The Trident should
>work with the standard SVGA driver.
Another $0.02 worth: "Soundblaster compatible" is not a reliable indicator
of Linux compatibility. It often means "Soundblaster compatible if you run
our driver which, oh by the way, only works with Windows."
>> AMD 350 K6-2 CPU
>> Generic 128 MB PC-100 SDRAM (8 for vid, 120 for system)
>
>I never liked that system. I think it's better to have a separate
>vidcard and get an extra 8 Megs of memory.
>
>> Voodoo 2 12MB 3D (PCI)
>
>It works, but is mostly useless. There aren't that many games
>available on Linux just yet.
XFree86 4.0 has a "glide" driver which supposedly works with the Voodoo 2;
I haven't tried it. If this driver works, that may solve any problems Laura
may have with graphics.
>> Happauge WinTV (PCI)
>
>Works with my neighbour flawlessly.
>
>> US Robotics PnP voice/fax (ISA, *not* a winmodem)
>
>You're lucky. Most USR-internals are Winmodems. It's ISAPnP, and Linux
>(still) has some problems with that. The easiest solution is to use a
>2.4.0-test kernel.
USR at least marks on the outside whether their modems are Winmodems.
Indeed "Winmodem" is a USR trademark.
--
--------------===============<[ Ray Chason ]>===============--------------
PGP public key at http://www.smart.net/~rchason/pubkey.asc
Delenda est Windoze
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (abraxas)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.x
Subject: Re: Why Linux, and X.11 when MacOS 'X' is around the corner?
Date: 2 Jul 2000 06:12:16 GMT
In comp.os.linux.advocacy Timberwoof <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> However, you dont have to be careful to not get a nubus mac, as there are
>> nearly
>> none left in existance.
>
> What happend to them all? When will my Quadra 610, Quadra 840, and Power
> Mc 6100 suffer the same fate? (By the way, NetBSD runs fine on NuBus 68k
> Macs.)
>
They already have...
If you are lucky enough to have a nubus mac, netbsd is pretty much the
only way to go.
=====yttrx
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (abraxas)
Subject: Re: CommyLinux vs Microsoft
Date: 2 Jul 2000 06:13:36 GMT
Steve Mading <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> abraxas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> : Donovan Rebbechi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> :> On 1 Jul 2000 19:25:27 -0500, Tim Palmer wrote:
> :>
> :>>Lern to speal EXCALLENT you FUCKING LIE-NUX IDIAT
> :>
> :> You are a fucking moron. If you can't get through a
> :> single sentence without making a spelling mistake,
> :> I suggest you leave the literary criticism to your
> :> intellectual superiors.
> :>
>
> : I suggest you learn the fine art of trolling before falling
> : victim to the same. :)
>
> Trolling is not an art form, and should never recieve any praise.
> The willingness to lie in public about what you believe is not
> art.
You obviously havent been doing this usenet thing as long as
some. In actuality, Palmer is a troll's troll; the old
fashioned kind. His trolling is multitiered and quite efficient.
And most importantly: it works.
=====yttrx
------------------------------
From: "Bobby D. Bryant" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux not ready for primetime!!! !
Date: Sun, 02 Jul 2000 00:22:31 -0500
leg log wrote:
> I'm a wealthy man... I have Maytags topline washer and dryer...
> and freezer from Sears
Wow. It must be nice to know when you've made it.
Bobby Bryant
Austin, Texas
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Paul E. Larson)
Subject: Re: Petition for Microsoft
Date: Sun, 02 Jul 2000 06:26:23 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, OSguy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Jimmy Navarro wrote:
>
>>>3.What message does it send, to see any enterprise broken because it
>is successful?
>
>It says any successful enterprise that corners the market by illegally
>forcing others out of business will be broken up. As you don't want to
Think about what you wrote. You have just included EVERY company that has
successfully competed in business.
>hear, successful business that have successful products without engaging
>in anti-competitive practices do just fine.
>
No such animal!
------------------------------
From: Jeff Szarka <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Trying Linux yet again....
Date: Sun, 02 Jul 2000 02:27:28 -0400
On Sat, 01 Jul 2000 22:12:51 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
>Oh, come on Jeff, Here is your posting history according to Deja (NOTICE
>NO POSTS TO ANY LINUX TECHNICAL NEWS GROUPS):
Well, go over to alt.os.mandrake and find the message yourself. The
subject is "Tons of problems"
I've recived quite a bit of useful help.
Ps, I don't think Deja.com has alt.os.mandrake.
------------------------------
From: Jeff Szarka <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Trying Linux yet again....
Date: Sun, 02 Jul 2000 02:27:52 -0400
On Sun, 02 Jul 2000 00:29:44 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] () wrote:
>
> ...or you could just install the latest version of Mandrake
> if you're desperate enough to install an entirely other OS..
Isn't 7.1 the newest?
------------------------------
From: Aaron Kulkis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.os.linux.mandrake
Subject: Re: Mandrake - DUN ?
Date: Sun, 02 Jul 2000 03:08:49 -0400
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
"H. Rivera" wrote:
>
First...set your line length to 72 chars, please.
> First, check here http://www.o2.net/~gromitkc/winmodem.html to find
> out if you have a winmodem or not.
2nd... you misspelled LOSEmodem.
>
> Second, if you're setup with KDE Desktop just follow the instructions
> on setting kppp, it's fairly simple.
>
> Third, it would surely help if you provide more details about your hardware and the
>kind of problems/errors you're encountering.
>
> Regards,
>
> Hector
> (Also a freshman in the Linux University)
>
> "Zen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > Appreciate if anyone on this NG could help me on this.
> > I am a beginner and have just installed Mandrake 7.
> > on my computer, after partitioning my HD.
> >
> > But, I am unable to setup my modem.
> > Could anyone email me on how to setup and configure my modem to logon to the
> > internet ?
> >
> > Thanks.
> > Alex.
> > Please email me at:
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> >
> >
> >
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
ICQ # 3056642
H: Knackos...you're a retard.
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: "Jeem" Dutton is a fool of the pathological liar sort.
C: Jet plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a method of
sidetracking discussions which are headed in a direction
that she doesn't like.
D: Jet claims to have killfiled me.
E: Jet now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (D) above.
F: Neither Jeem nor Jet are worthy of the time to compose a
response until their behavior improves.
G: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
------------------------------
From: Aaron Kulkis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux code going down hill
Date: Sun, 02 Jul 2000 03:11:49 -0400
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Donovan Rebbechi wrote:
>
> On Sun, 02 Jul 2000 01:44:13 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> >Well, solving technical issues was not really the point of
> >the post. I can trace down and fix the problems easily
> >enough except for the lack of maintaining the man pages.
>
> Well I don't believe you when you talk about these so
> called "problems" to be honest. I think your installation is,
> to put it bluntly, hosed.
>
> The problems that you are experiencing are not normal. gcc and g++
> have been around for a long time, and are well tested. I assure
> you that if #include <stdio.h> makes the compiler choke, somethings
> very wrong with your installation.
>
> >The issue is why use an OS without centralizing source
> >control and testing when there are free Unix-compatible
> >implementations available that do have these critical
> >elements?
>
> I'm not sure what you mean about "centralizing source control".
> If you want a Solaris box to be half usable, you'll want to
> throw a ton of third party software on top of it.
>
> IMO, Solaris is more or less unusable until you add the GNU
> utilities to it. ( Does it even ship with a C++ compiler ??? )
>
Pretty much the truth. The typical Sun workstation used in the auto
industustry comes in at around $30,000 once you add apps.
> It's not unusual to see Solaris with the GNU utilities, Apache,
> gcc/g++, cvs and a bunch of other free software installed. At
> this stage, it already looks a lot like Linux.
>
> --
> Donovan
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
ICQ # 3056642
H: Knackos...you're a retard.
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: "Jeem" Dutton is a fool of the pathological liar sort.
C: Jet plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a method of
sidetracking discussions which are headed in a direction
that she doesn't like.
D: Jet claims to have killfiled me.
E: Jet now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (D) above.
F: Neither Jeem nor Jet are worthy of the time to compose a
response until their behavior improves.
G: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Linux, easy to use?
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Pete Goodwin)
Date: Sun, 02 Jul 2000 07:19:07 GMT
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Roberto Alsina) wrote in <8jm8dv$v0k$1
@nnrp1.deja.com>:
>> However... select with
>left
>> relies on the text still being selected. If it gets deselected, its
>gone.
>> CTRL-C on Windows goes into a buffer. That buffer can be pasted into a
>DOS
>> prompt, just not dropped.
>
>And how exactly can you paste it? Ctrl-v?
>BTW: after my first few months on unixes, I started finding the windows
>"it's not copied yet" way clumsy.
You press the button on the tool bar of the DOS prompt.
>If the mouse procedure works in all cases, it is not inconsistent.
>It's just that you don't like it :-)
I like cut/copy/paste to be associated to keypresses, menus and drag and
drop. Then it all starts to make sense.
>BTW: Ctrl-x/c/v DOES work in edit fields in KDE. Try it.
Can I copy from an xterm into an edit field - I can if I use the MB3 paste,
but not CTRL-C CTRLV - I can't use CTRL-C in an xterm.
Pete
------------------------------
Subject: Re: I hope you trolls are happy...
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Pete Goodwin)
Date: Sun, 02 Jul 2000 07:21:23 GMT
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Aaron Kulkis) wrote in <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>What happens when LoseDOS suddenly has yet anoter epileptic seizure
>and BSOD's, then, after it comes up, it lost the driver for your
>printer, and you can't find the install disk?
And Linux doesn't lose file system changes after a crash does it?
>I'll tell you what... you're COMPLETELY up a creek.
And if Linux blows away the config file, I guess you just type it in from
memory.
>Conversely under Unix, you just edit the config file, and resume
>as normal.
If you can remember the settings. Oh yes, you could go and read the HOWTO's
etc. If you can make sense of them.
Pete
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Where did all my windows go?
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Pete Goodwin)
Date: Sun, 02 Jul 2000 07:24:19 GMT
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in <8jlqrp$mfi$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>If you know that KDE is NOT Linux and you claim that Linux has problems
>because of problems with KDE (KNOWING THAT KDE IS NOT LINUX) then you
>are a troll if not a moron.
Perhaps you are the troll/moron for not bothering to understand my
viewpoint.
Pete
PS. In this context, I use the word troll to mean "thick idiot".
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Where did all my windows go?
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Pete Goodwin)
Date: Sun, 02 Jul 2000 07:25:39 GMT
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Tim Palmer) wrote in <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>Well, your problem seams to be (as you mentianned abuv) that your
>running Linux. Just pop in Windo's 2000 and you woant have any more
>problem's.
Correct.
Pete
------------------------------
From: Paul Wilson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux code going down hill
Date: Sun, 02 Jul 2000 02:27:16 -0500
Donovan Rebbechi wrote:
<snip>
> IMO, Solaris is more or less unusable until you add the GNU
> utilities to it. ( Does it even ship with a C++ compiler ??? )
No. Hell, it doesn't even ship with something as basic as 'top'.
Paul
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Where did all my windows go?
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Pete Goodwin)
Date: Sun, 02 Jul 2000 07:32:09 GMT
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Perry Pip) wrote in
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>Nothing works??? Really?? I just did this and all it did was crash
>KFM. That made the icons on the desktop dissappear, all KFM windows
>dissappear, and disabled kpanel from spawing applications. I still has
>access to all my running windows, and to other virtual desktops. Both
>the X server and underlying Linux OS were working fine.
Which is why logout seemed the simplest option.
>>Logout is the only option.
>
>Wrong. All I needed to do was restart KFM, which could be done
>numerous ways:
>
>1) Type Alt-F2 and type kfm at the prompt.
>
>2) Switch to an exiting terminal window and type 'kfm', or better yet
>'nohup kfm &' to detach it from the terminal.
>
>3) Switch to a virtual console, i.e. Ctrl-Alt-F2, and type 'kfm -display
>:0'
>
>4) Log in from a remote machine and restart kfm as above.
Logout seems a lot simpler. I, of course, not knowing KDE that well, would
not know to have tried any of the above. But then, I did not know it was
KFM that had died.
>But surely you've had to know how to type ctrl-alt-del to get your
>task manager to kill an app and recover your system. Now a windows
>newbie wouldn't know how to do that, just as KDE newbie doesn't know
>how to restart KFM.
Precisely. Your point?
>>(1) When I say Linux, I really mean "the Linux desktop".
>
>But this whole thing is specific to KDE. When you say linux, you are
>stretching it out of context. KDE != LINUX!!!!
If I say Linux and compare it to a Windows desktop feature, then is it not
bleeding obvious I mean "Linux KDE"? In all the posts I've done, I'm pretty
much talking about KDE all the time. If that's stretching the context, I
must be talking to children!
>When people have to explain the same simple thing over and over again
>to you and you still don't get it what should they do???
That's just what I was thinking? I guess I'll have to start using using
"Linux and the KDE desktop" for all those simpletons here who don't
understand basic English. What a mouthful. Of course, I could use "Linux
and the KDE desktop" just the once, and then everyone ought to know what I
mean when I say Linux from then on.
Otherwise I really am talking to children.
Pete
------------------------------
Subject: Re: LIE-nux is SUPPOST to destroy data (was: Re: This is a Troll, do not
resond (was Re: Linux is junk))
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Pete Goodwin)
Date: Sun, 02 Jul 2000 07:38:20 GMT
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Aaron Kulkis) wrote in <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>I've never seen ANY form of Unix destroy data.
I have. Pull the plug on one and see what happens. At best, nothing, at
worst, you've lost a whole load of stuff you've just painstakingly entered.
The only system I know of that could reasonably copy with this was OpenVMS.
>Happens on my "LOSE98" machines on a regular basis, however.
What's LOSE98? Is this the same as Lie-nux?
Pete
------------------------------
From: Steve Mading <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: CommyLinux vs Microsoft
Date: 2 Jul 2000 07:42:28 GMT
abraxas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
: You obviously havent been doing this usenet thing as long as
: some.
There exist some people who've been on usenet longer than me,
yes. My experience only goes back 6 years.
: In actuality, Palmer is a troll's troll; the old
: fashioned kind. His trolling is multitiered and quite efficient.
Bullshit. I'm fully capable of seeing the multiple levels. The
fact that I don't find it praiseworthy doesn't mean I don't recognise
it. The effect that trolling has is to reduce people's willingness
to correct false claims (because they are left wondering in those
borderline cases whether or not the person really means what they
are saying or if they are a troll.) If everyone followed the advice
to not feed the trolls, then FUD spreaders and other bullshit artists
would have free reign to keep making their dumb claims unchallenged.
: And most importantly: it works.
This is hardly praiseworthy. It succeeds at poisoning the well.
------------------------------
From: Steve Mading <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: I'm Ready! I'm ready! I'm not ready.
Date: 2 Jul 2000 07:46:40 GMT
Ray Chason <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
: Another $0.02 worth: "Soundblaster compatible" is not a reliable indicator
: of Linux compatibility. It often means "Soundblaster compatible if you run
: our driver which, oh by the way, only works with Windows."
Or in other words, "Our card isn't compatable with the Soundblaster
card in the slightest. Our driver, on the other hand, is compatable
with the driver for the Soundblaster card." Computer hardware needs
more truth in advertising.
------------------------------
From: Nic <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux code going down hill
Date: Sun, 02 Jul 2000 20:09:06 +1200
Paul Wilson wrote:
>
> Donovan Rebbechi wrote:
> <snip>
> > IMO, Solaris is more or less unusable until you add the GNU
> > utilities to it. ( Does it even ship with a C++ compiler ??? )
>
> No. Hell, it doesn't even ship with something as basic as 'top'.
As I've long maintained, the best thing to do when faced with a fresh
Solaris installation is to install prep.ai.mit.edu on it (ie.
ftp.gnu.org).
Solaris has some really neat features, but I find the default install
very uncomfortable to work in.
Regards,
Nic.
--
J. Random Coder < sky at wibble dot net >
------------------------------
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